Vol Connie Green 50th Anniversary

by Laochra Uladh Sat Nov 28, 2015 03:25

This year marks the 60th anniversary of Connie Green's death, were any events or comm's organized for the occasion?

by Relative of Vol. Connie Green - none Mon Jan 16, 2012 22:21

I have just today come across this discussion fourm and have found some of the commentary about my uncle Connie very interesting. I would never pursume to no the minds of any of our fallen Volunteers or how they would feel about the sisuatation in Ireland today, I can only suggest each and everyone died believing in the vision of an Ireland free from British rule where all our people,s are treated equally. I with the rest of my family, including my late father Paddy , Connie,s only remaining brother where honoured and delighted to attend Connies 50th Anniversary commemeration and have the opportunity to meet and talk with some of Connies former comrades . We where deeply indebted to the Republican Community,s of North Monaghan and Derry and from across Ireland who gathered to pay thier respects, it was a truely wonderful occassion for our whole extented family and especially my Da, and we where extremely grateful to everyone who contributed to that special occassion. I have had the pleasure of hearing at frist hand some of the stories about many different events that my Uncle Connie was involved in and have compiled quite a bit of information and pictures in the hope at some stage in the future I can perhaps tell a fuller story about Volunteer Connie Green. If your readership has any genuine stories or pictures relating to Connies life I would love to hear from them. Kindest Regards...

by Mick Mon Dec 05, 2011 01:52 spiritoffreedom69 at rocketmail dot com

@Collins, its so nice to see there are still SU men around. I'd love to learn more about vol's like Deeny, John Collins, Kevin Neville, etc.

The group was ahead of its time in many ways, was more efficient than the IRA, had stronger, albiet not as widespread support , contacts internationally before internationalism was fashionable, and was more effective militarily due to people like Connie (IRA bombs often only damaged buildings/bridges while SU had a knack for wiping them out). they were also free from the fixation on orthodoxy and method that still hinders the movement.

The mainstream movement however would like to erase their memory as they were different, and inspire others to be different. Alo Hand is still listed as an IRA member and in papers like AP/RN Kelly is portrayed more like a failed dreamer than a grassroots leader. Granted its over and the group is history, but if we are going to remember the past and past heroes they should be remembered the right way and not hypocritically.

by Mick Mon Dec 05, 2011 01:39 spiritoffreedom69 at rocketmail dot com

Does anyone know what Commando Unit connie Green belonged to? also heard he was decorated, does anyone know what for? I read that the commandos didn't keep records at the time but someone might know.

Connie Green  was a fascinating member of a fascinating group, its been 50 years, someone should write something more detailed about him before its lost.

by Seoirse MacDomhnaill - Cathal Brugha/Hugh Heron Republican Club Thu Jun 16, 2011 01:50

Several people have requested a photo of Connie Green. Here is one I got from the daughter of a man who was with him when he died.

Connie Green, Saor Uladh

by fianna uladh 2009 - SAOR ULADH Mon May 18, 2009 23:25 thomasdiver1 at hotmail dot com

i would like to make contacts of any former members of saor uladh and gather AS MUCH information as possible on the group there actions there views.all the names of the dead ex volunteers of saor uladh.i stress that this is of alot of importants please email me any contact details or information that you can devolve thanks

thomasdiver1@hotmail.com

by steve - University of Toulouse Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:42 rookes.stephen at wanadoo dot fr

I am currently carrying out research on Saor Uladh and would be pleased to make contact with anyone with knowledge or has contacts with the 1956 raids.

I would be pleased to leave a contact address.

by Sean Daly - East Tyrone Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:56

Like many of his Comrades, Connie Green did not die simply for Civil Rights and a cross border food agency. He died for an independant Ireland, free, completley from British authority. Still today in 2007 part of the Island is under British law, no matter how much some dress up the situation. I think it was highly inappropriate that Martin McGuinness address the commemoration to Connie - he was a member of a group not belonging to the Provisonal IRA never mind the old IRA. It was an organisation based mainly in my area of east tyrone comprising Pomeroy, Carrickmore, Galbally, Donaghmore, Dungannon, Coalisland etc. Saor Uladh was formed as volunteers on the ground felt the IRA were not challenging the British enough, quite like today then. However McGuinnesses address is a typical example of rewriting history on the part of those that have to cover it up.
God Rest Connie and Liam.

by kevin macgowan Sat Mar 31, 2007 05:13

In the raid on Rosslea Barracks one of the four R U C constables stationed there was Gordon Knowles, He was shot in the back as he slept and has five bullet wounds to prove it. He eventually married the nurse that nursed him at the R V H in Belfast..

Today it can be seen that we Irish whether Protestant or Catholic can work together for unity. Let's hope common sense prevails and there is no more a return to the gun with the loss of so many innocent lives

by Ciaran Wed Jul 26, 2006 17:56

Connie was born in Derry afaik. Was decorated in the British Army for actions in Italy

by Jim, Cork. Fri Jun 23, 2006 19:34

Vol. Kevin Neville, (1921-1964) Saor Uladh, Cork, took part in the raid on Roslea R.U.C. Barracks in 1955.
Can anyone tell me where exactly Vol. Connie Green was born ?

by John Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:18

Ill give it a go.

by Barry Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:40

when your posting your comment theres a box says upload your files. click that . choose number 1,2 etc and it will upload the photos from your computer

click the upload your files button first before you post anything

by John Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:35

Not related to this story, but how do you post a photo on indymedia? I asked the imc some days ago but got no reply

by pat c Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:34

would you you scan your photo of connie and publish it here? my family had a picture of connie in combat uniform holding a stengun but it seems to have been lost.

indeed the mcguinness discovery of connie is suprising, but i thought it was good to see connie commemorated.

by johnny the rebel Mon Feb 13, 2006 01:10

There is a volunteer plot in Edendork cemetry outside Coalisland on the Dungannon road, I was under the impression that he was buried there under a very ornate republican headstone which represents several volunteers?

by Collins - Ex Saor Uladh,Official Republican Movement, Socialist. Sun Feb 12, 2006 23:06

Comrades,
I have read with interest the comments so far submitted andwhile I appreciate that all or most are well intententioned, let me add from personal experience and knowledge of the People and events.
I had the privilage and honour of knowing Connie Green and his family as well as his comrades, the foremost of them now dead. John Collins, Tommy Mc Cool, Joe Coyle Donal Deeny, all from Derry City and all involved in the planning and carrying out of various operations including the raid on Ebrington Barrack, Derrylin, Rosslea etc.
It is true that socialism was not high on the agenda of meetings of the group but that does not mean that none of the members were devoid of socialist belief.
Saor Uladh was born out of frustation caused by the inactivity of the IRA at the time and had the nett effect of forcing the IRA into calling off their ceasefire and returning to the armed campaign resulting early on the deaths at Bessbrook.
All that apart, I remember Connie's death, I remember attending his funeral and to this day still visit his grave.
As a point of information, Connie did not die in any hospital but died in the parochial house in Carrickroe not 100 yards from where he was "eventually" buried.
Martin Mc Guinness appears to have had a Damascus experience regarding the events of Nov. 1955. I dont recall his having mentioned it before. Perhaps it was not politically convenient to do so.
Since he has had some power of recall he might acknowledge that Connie firstly was not a member of Sinn Fein or the Provisional IRA and from my knowledge of the man he would certainly not wish to be commemorated by anyone involved in administering British rule in this country. By the way I wonder how did he managed to find the grave since he never seemed to my knowledge to have visited it in the past? By the way, Mc Guinness says there are no photos of Connie. Well I have one, as have most of the people who knew , respected and loved the man. But of course that would not include a collaborator.

by peadar Fri Jan 06, 2006 20:30

According to their new years statement the reals dont currently have a strategy it seems

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1135949911&user=32csm

by Barry Thu Jan 05, 2006 23:35

I was asked what " my strategy " was and I replied honestly .

I never denied there were links of various kinds between the 2 seperate groups . I simply pointed out that 32csm is a legal and unarmed political organisation whose entire strategy was open and available to view in the link provided . Its strategy does not include the use of armed force .

I am not a member of the IRA . Therefore Im not in a position to comment on what their strategy is , or to regard it even as " my strategy ". It isnt .

by notakid Thu Jan 05, 2006 18:38

Liam kelly, mentioned above was later a member of the stickies and very pro moscow, to the point of being downright stalinist. If i'm correct he lived for some time in glaslough st monaghan, from where he ruled the local stickies in the late seventies/early eighties. an interesting note to barry is that one of his acolytes was the son of a local protestant bank manager, cant remember his name for the life of me, but he could be the bloke you were debating with on another thread.

As for analysis, it is obvious that the armed struggles of successive incarnations of the ra failed, I think it is simplistic to merely blame the leadership. The campaigns themselves were flawed as was the organisational structure. Apart from analysing the failures of the ra campaigns it is also necessary to analyse successful campaigns by others including the armed forces of the imperial powers. Notable too is the fact that in the recent wars the us/brit coalition first targeted infrastructural targets, whereas the ra only began to do that at the end of their campaign.

finally, it devalues the other good points barry makes when he pretends their is no connection between 32csm and rira, I dont know where you live barry but in nth louth the dogs on the streets know the crack.

by pat c Thu Jan 05, 2006 16:53

thats different. he doesnt appear on any roll of honour then.

"when was the last time you attended a Remembrance Sunday service anyway?"

well, we call them easter sunday commemorations, its about something that happened in 1916.

by rooster Thu Jan 05, 2006 16:25

In our legions we remember ALL members of the security forces included in the parade will be members of the fire service and paramedics, when was the last time you attended a Remembrance Sunday service anyway?

by pat c Thu Jan 05, 2006 16:21

"the thing is patsee, he is remembered every remembrance sunday on Cookstown main street "

really? i thought only those who were members of the miliary and its auxilaries were commemorated at the cenotaph. he didnt even fall in action. is every deceased retired ruc member commemorated? i think you are entering the realms of fantasy.

by rooster Thu Jan 05, 2006 00:42

no one remembered the bould sarge until you mentioned him. no one will ever commemorate him. just another warrior ant who did his bit for british imperialism. then sent off with his little pension to while away the rest of his days. no last post for him, no dipped flag, no muffled drums.

-the thing is patsee, he is remembered every remembrance sunday on Cookstown main street and at least he had a pension not like all those lazy twats who spend their lives sitting on the dole and I'm pretty sure he was not thinking of british imperialism when the rounds were passing over his head!


There were 2 RUC men there that night. One named Gordon, the other named Knowles.

-officially there were two on guard but Albert was the despatch rider who had arrived from Enniskillen only an hour before the raid had begun. Besides does it really make a difference if it was two or three?
An entire column was being thrown against the station (including trained Commandos) without warning, this was attempted murder dressed up as some sort of courageous political act and would only have had the effect of ruining local community relations but the that never was a problem for republicans was it?

by R. Isible - Indymedia Ireland Wed Jan 04, 2006 04:46

QUOTE: this board. It's a socialist/marxist website

My arse it is. This is an Open Publishing website. If Marxist/Socialists are the majority users then it's becuase they're more active than other traditions. And if you ask the Marxist/Socialists they'll be the first to tell you that this website (it's not a board b.t.w. it's a NEWS site) is dominated by anarchists. And if you ask the anarchists they'll tell you it's dominated by liberal peaceniks.

by tall tale Wed Jan 04, 2006 02:10

mebbe roosters oul fella was telling him tall stories

by Barney Wed Jan 04, 2006 01:37

There were 2 RUC men there that night. One named Gordon, the other named Knowles. Don't you get tired of being caught lying?

by pat c Tue Jan 03, 2006 14:15

i have to say that the only sadness i have about his passing was that it wasnt on that night. pity connie didnt get him.

but one things for sure, no one remembered the bould sarge until you mentioned him. no one will ever commemorate him. just another warrior ant who did his bit for british imperialism. then sent off with his little pension to while away the rest of his days. no last post for him, no dipped flag, no muffled drums.

by rooster Tue Jan 03, 2006 14:06

The RUC man that blew Connie away that night was Albert Wilson from Cookstown who sadly passed away in 1987. The weapon he used that night was a .303 SMLE a weapon accuratte out to 800m and so more than adaquate for dealing with a rebel on a stair case.

by pat c Mon Jan 02, 2006 21:20

"I only pointed it out to counter the invented myth by Pat C that SU were good dyed red socialists"

ciaran

once again i must point out that i wrote no such thing. there were socialists in saor uladh, i never claimed they all were or even a majority.

a someone wrote here a lot of them were indeed simple men, rural men who had not come into contact with socialist ideas before.

someone who played an important role in radicalising them and getting political discussion going was kevin neville., who also took part in the raid (he died of cancer in 1964. ) but even he had to lower his propaganda at times. on one occasion when he convinced the men to rustle cattle he convinced them that it was not a sin as the owners were unionist ranchers. worthy of a jesuit.

i have discussed connie green again with my father and he has confirmed that connie was a socialist. his name is eamon corcoran. now if some named person wants to come on here and give a different story then go ahead.

as i wrote previously connie was always respected in my house as i was growing up and his photo was in the corner of a 1916 gpo print by lavery.

i was late in responding as i was offline for more than a week. my father has never wanted to add in any heroics on what was done. he just says that connie made a fatal error in not firing a burst into the ceiling before charging up the stairs.

by Ciaran Mon Jan 02, 2006 13:36

Fair nuff then Barney. But please tell me what insight we can get from the historical perspective of attacking a barrack. Thats only indulging in fireside republicanism and I'd tell ya this I 'd get a right fat ear from the oul fella if he thought I was detailing the ambush on a marxist website. Fact is he never really wanted to get into the details of it and I never pushed him, I don't see what purpose it serves either. Maybe Pat C can fill you in on the nailbiting bits. I certainly won't, even if I could. However, the SU saga does present us with major lessons from history - not as exciting as telling tales of blasting barracks I fear Barney but since you asked me to recall what I know - then here you are.
What SU done is the 1950's was counted as political heresy in mainstream republican circles 1. They recognised the 26 Couny Gov as the Legitimate gov of Ireland. 2. For the first time in republicanism they were made up of a northen leadership with gave them none of the ideological Civil War view on politics, therefore they were more able to make political decisions without the Civil War Fog Of War over their eyes. 3. In the absence of their hate of the 26 county gov they were able to garner support from the broad republican family in the 26 counties. Stories of help from the Garda, Fine Gael families etc are true. 4. They were also clear from the shackles of foreign ideologies such as socialism. 5. Strategic alliance with Clann Na Poblachta was the first sign of the 'armalite and ballot box stragegy' much touted in the 1980's. In the round then, SF's enterance into the Dail, talk of 'an agreed Ireland' etc in the latter years IS EXACTLY what the men of SU had been saying the 1950's.

by Barney Sun Jan 01, 2006 05:25

Ciaran, would you ever come down from your high horse and have a bit of wit? There's no one asking you to give up names of anybody! What I said was, you thick donkey, was that K requested some details regarding the death of Con Green, and since you very clumsily implied you had an inside track, I suggested you share some of your infinite wisdom. I also said I found it hard to believe that 2 people in this debate were children of men in the raiding party. Not entirely impossible, but it sounds a bit like armchair generals if you ask me. Everyone likes to grab a bit of the glory when the hard work is over. Now be a man and stand by what you said. Many of the Saor Uladh men are gone to their eternal reward and sure isn't ist a blessing from God himself that we have you to tell us what went down? You have a gift, Ciaran. Don't waste it.

by Ciaran Sat Dec 31, 2005 20:21

whats your problem. Why do you find it hard to believe? And anyway whats the big deal and big trip your one about how you know them all - so what big deal!!!! And so what if my father was one of them I only pointed it out to counter the invented myth by Pat C that SU were good dyed red socialists. You'll excuse me if I don't get off on a power trip by naming them on this board. It's a socialist/marxist website and therefore naming the brave men of SU certainly does them no service. Anyhow - you know more than me, I only know two of them. BTW - if you know anything or have any affiliation to northern republicanism you'd know better than to ask me to name their names and get a cyperslap accross the face for publically even asking as such. Twit...

by analyst Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:02

Barry

a bit less of the ranting and investive would be nice. My question remains: just what is your strategy? It is not clear from your documents, and you never, ever condescend to explain exactly what it is.

Meanwhile, you have the Real IRA out there somewhere, and I rather gather that you have some sympathy/ relationship with them.

Your documents are one thing: your actions are another. They are more important than words. and your silence when pressed on strategy tells also a great deal.

In teh absence of any absolutely unequaivocal commitment to peaceful means as a principal, I treat your comment above with teh same seriiousness as I view Gerry Adams' claim that he was never a member of the IRA.

Come clean Barry - what, exactly, is your strategy? Or does the use of plain English leave you tonge tied?

by an interested observor Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:25

Did saor Uldah produce a newspaper called "Aisari"?

by Barry Sat Dec 31, 2005 03:23

32CSM is a purely political , unarmed and legal organisation . An unarmed civilian organisation does not advocate armed struggle as part of its strategy . If youd bothered reading the document youd know that . You obviously didnnt .

Above your head I imagine , that me and my " cohorts" could formulate a strategy ..

by Barry Sat Dec 31, 2005 03:18

( set up and murdered in 1987 as part of the Stakeknife affair) Also a saor uladh man .

I know of a couple of ex SU in Dublin who were talking about Connie Green only last month . Ill be talking to one of them in a few weeks again and if I can add any information to the debate I will .

by barney Sat Dec 31, 2005 01:20

I know the names of each and every one of the men involved in the raid, and I find it hard to believe that 2 of their children are involved in this debate. And I've also had personal dealings with all of them, with the exception of Con Green. I wonder why neither of you have offered up any further information as was requested by K?

by analyst Fri Dec 30, 2005 01:05

barry

i have studied the document, but I posed my questions because I was still uncertain of your position. Is it possible to provide a shortish summary of your position that answers them? To recap: 'This raises the question: what alternative strategy did you or would you advocate? To be specific, do you or do you not advocate a resumption of military struggle? If you don't, why do you think that the last one failed?

You also say: 'As Irish sovereignty and freedom ( our objective ) is essentially Irish democracy at its maximum expression , then it should also be our strategy .'

I am not sure what you mean here. Do you, for example, mean unequically that so long as the majority of Irish people in the whole island, and the majority of Catholics in the north, oppolse a military struggle then you favour other approaches? And if that is so, may I ask what those approaches are? '

by kstdcc Thu Dec 29, 2005 23:38

Ciaran, I am genuinely interested if you or any others posting here know the particulars of the night Connie Green died. I am looking for more details. Would appreciate reply.

by analyst Thu Dec 29, 2005 20:38

Barry - many thanks for the reply. I hope you don't mind if I say that it still leaves a few things unclear.

If you think that the biggest problem is lack of democracy in the republican movement, then I imagine that you think this led to approaches being adopted despite the views of the organisation's membership. In particular, I assume you have in mind the GFA and the peace process. This raises the question: what alternative strategy did you or would you advocate? To be specific, do you or do you not advocate a resumption of military struggle? If you don't, why do you think that the last one failed?

You also say: 'As Irish sovereignty and freedom ( our objective ) is essentially Irish democracy at its maximum expression , then it should also be our strategy .'

I am not sure what you mean here. Do you, for example, mean unequically that so long as the majority of Irish people in the whole island, and the majority of Catholics in the north, oppolse a military struggle then you favour other approaches? And if that is so, may I ask what those approaches are? I would like to think that they consist solely of debate, discussion and politics - ie democratic approaches.

Your response would be appreciated.

by Barry Thu Dec 29, 2005 19:39

The fundamental weakness in the republican movement for most of the last century has been its lack of internal democracy . This is particularly exemplified by the Adams and Stick leaderships with their centralisation of absolute power in the hands of a few ( increasingly being outed as British agents) and control freakery and censorship masquerading as party discipline .

Far from not examining the reasons for these failures they have been thoroughly analysed over a period of years . The results of this analysis have been discussed over a period of a year at all levels of the movement .This analysis and the result of those discussions are now central to 32csms entire strategy .

As Irish sovereignty and freedom ( our objective ) is essentially Irish democracy at its maximum expression , then it should also be our strategy .

http://www.32csm.org/pow.html

If you wish to criticise this analysis knock yourself out , but dont be accusing 32csm of failing to analyse how the republican movement has failed in its objectives . Its simply untrue .

by kstdcc Thu Dec 29, 2005 19:32 kstdcc at eircom dot net

Regarding analyst's comments:
Are we reading the same page? Nowhere in Barry's message did I see a reference to "Adams & Co" being traitors. Nor did I find evidence of Barry's desire for a "military resumption". Perhaps Barry IS a closet war/hate-monger. I don't know. But I think your somewhat hostile response to his rather civil entry is cause for concern. What I'm wondering is how can the 50's campaign, or any peiod of armed struggle be called a failure? To know that for sure, we'd have to be privy to what the course of history would have been had the croppies all laid down. I will concede that none of the periods of guerilla warfare were entirely successful, but I will also add that even less progress was made during times of cease-fire. I do however think that at this moment in time, (nearly) all that could have been achieved by the most recent phase of armed struggle was achieved. And that is partly due to the groundwork laid by Kelly's men. Failure? I don't think so.

by analyst Thu Dec 29, 2005 17:09

What I think is missing from many comments, particularly those of Barry and the 32CSM in general, is any attempt at serious analysis of where the last IRA campaign went wrong. Part of the point of commemorating the past might be to learn from it - which means drawing a balance sheet of events. The campaign of the 1950s failed; that of the 1970s-1990s ultimately did no better. So the conclusion is?

It is hard to know what Barry and his cohorts infer from all this - other than that Adams and Co are traitors. However, a campaign that can be derailed by the treachery of a few leaders must have some other fundamental weakness at its core. Adams and co got their way because, even at its height in the early 70s, the IRA campaign was not sufficient to dislodge the British state. This led to war weariness, inertia and the desire for a settlement. Adams derived his strength from the fact that his approach chimed in with this predominaht mood, while that of those who wanted to fight on in perpetuity, with the reality that they could not win ever more apparant, simply did not.

It is not clear where to from here. It appears as if Barry and co. ultimately would like a military resumption - if not immediately, then some time. They do not say why they think they would be any more successful this time round. If the RA campaign of 71/72 etc - when resistance was at its height, and had never reached that level before in the history of the northern state - if such resistance could not win then, why should it now, or ever? For that matter, what political conditions would be likely to regenerate it at that level anyway?

And none of this is to get into whether the objective of a united Ireland is worth all that mayhem in the first place! Or whether Barry and his friends would have the right to create such mayhem in defiance of the express wishes of the Irish people!

by P Thu Dec 29, 2005 16:52

I think, for alot of them, they are aware that it didn't achieve its aims. Also - it only happened a relatively short time ago and some may not wish to talk about it. Others may have become disillusioned through the years. I know if one such person who feels let down by the behaviour of RA volunteers in the more recent years, drinking, womanising and trying their hands at diesel or whatever there is a pound to be made at.

by Barry Wed Dec 28, 2005 21:19

It was common at that time for attacks , especially on RUC barracks to be undertaken by columns of men . The point of the attacks were to physically occupy the barracks and force a surrender rather than simply inflict casualties . Its amazing the amount of men still around today who were active at that time from all around the country .

I recently found out one of my neighbours , a very quiet man Ive known for years was very active in Fermanagh at that time . Very very few people in this supposedly staunch republican area are even aware of it .

The 50s campaign needs to be evaluated within our history as more than a simple "failure" . Republicans from all 4 corners of this country were active in the field , southerners forming the majority of the resistance . The fact there was a number of different factions at the very least illustrates that a desire to end British dominion in this country was more widespread than official history suggests . As does the massive outpouring of support at the funerals of South and OHanlon , the election of Ruari OBradaigh and others as TDs and MPs etc .

A fascinating period of modern history too easily dismissed as irrelevant . Hundreds ogf men leaving their homes for yaers and going north with a gun isnt irrelevant by any standards .

by Ciaran Wed Dec 28, 2005 17:40

Not sure of the numbers but there were alot, certainly by todays standards

by K Wed Dec 28, 2005 02:29 KSTDCC at eircom dot net

I am delighted that Saor Uladh and Connie Green are being discussed, as I do think the 50's campaign was a very important one,and unfortunately, very often forgotten. Though I must say that I think "pat" is making it all so much more complicated than it has to be, or indeed was. I fully agree with "ciaran" when he says their aim was 'simply a united Ireland' (paraphrasing). All this socialist republic hooha just muddies the waters. These were simple men from a simple time. Their intentions were simple as well. One country. No border. This is why their campaign was so focused on the border region and customs posts.

By the way, just out of curiosity, how many men do think were there the night Connie Green lost his life?

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 13:55

I can say the same pat c, however my story differs - there was never any reference to socialism, there was never any conversations regarding socialism, either with Connie, Kelly or anyone else. I think they were too busy planning other things. Thats just what I heard, I don't stand to rubbish you recollections but I have to state mine are different.

by pat c Tue Nov 29, 2005 13:50

I'm probably getting too touchy but its easy for debates to degenerate on Indymedia. I knew of Connies Socialist leanings from my father. As I wrote above my father was in Saor Uladh and participated in that raid. Connie Green was a subject of conversation as I was growing up so I learned about him.

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 13:47

Infantile off the cuff remark on my part.but without going into specific detail can you tell me just how you know Connie was a good socialist. My own historical reference to the question certainly has no evidence that he was a socialist. I'd like to know how you know

by pat c Tue Nov 29, 2005 13:43

I never said that all the Saor Uladh Volunteers were fighting for a Socialist Republic no more than all the members of PIRA were fighting for a Socialist Republic. Referring to contributions as tosh does not lead to rational debate. Especially when you are attacking something I never wrote.

This is what I said: "Connie had been a commando during WWII and used his training to advance the cause of a Socialist Republic. " Connie was a Socialist and he wasnt just fighting for a "Republic".

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 13:37

not sure on Gerry Lawless, TPC's IRA book has the facts, can't remember off hand now. Off course there were volunteers from Dublin, no one stating any different. Esp. in the IRA. I'm just recounting one particular incident. And I suppose thge thrust of my thread is that the original post that Saor Uladh were all good socialists fighting for a socialist republic is a load of tosh. They certainly were not. They were an organisation that made things happen as opposed to sitting around talking marxist discourse for ever

by historian Tue Nov 29, 2005 13:32

There was no 'left turn' within the IRA in the 1950s. In fact the leadership was decidedly anti-socialist. The reason SU did initiate operations was due to frustration over the preparations for Operation Harvest to begin.

Was it Gery Lawless' group that took part in SU operations?

By the way, there were plenty of Dublin Volunteers involved in operations both prior to the campaign beginning, and after 1957.

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:32

Yes - mostly Tyrone, the rest made up of South Fermanagh, North Monaghan, some South Derry, and Dublin, Cork and Derry. Remember SU also teamed up with a Dublin based outfit for a number of operations, can't remember their name now but I assume this is where possibly the socialist content originated from. The oul fella still recalls with amusement how excited one of them became 'to actually cross the border' one night. Much to the muffled chuckle of his northern firends. Reports were he was much glader to cross back later on that particular evening :o)

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:27

Regarding your comment re. Fine Gael involving itself in armed struggle. The point that SU made one of the boldest politicial moves, 30 yrs aherad of their time in my opinion, should not be lost. Remember it was a time when republicans were on the run more so in the south than the north. The left turn within the IRA meant they spent most of their energy going round in circles condemning the 26 county government and issuing left leaning statements while the northern Catholic population continued to get it in the throat from the Herrenvolk. The Saor Uladh move was significant in two areas - it called a halt to the ideologising and stopped talking about doing things and actually started to do something. (Operation Harvest was the initative taken to take the wind from SU's sails 2. It recognised the 26 county government as a legitimate government. Not hard to figure out what has happened within the movement in latter years. The message was stop ideologising and start being practical, make the painful moves you have to in order to achieve your aim, and yes that meant C NA P jumping into bed with FG. For that alone - we owe those men our eternal thanks.

by pat c Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:19

A few inaccuracies in this article. Saor Uladh wasnt restricted to one area of Tyrone: at least 3 members were from Cork and there were others from around the country. but overall it gives a good history of Saor Uladh.

Pat c


Remembering the Past - Connie Green and Saor Uladh
BY SHANE Mac THOMÁIS

On 26 November 1955, almost 50 years ago, Connie Green of Saor Uladh was buried unnamed in a Monaghan graveyard.

In October 1951 Liam Kelly of Pomeroy, County Tyrone, was dismissed from the IRA. With his own power base in East Tyrone he took the local Volunteers with him in a new direction.

Founding Fianna Uladh, a political party recognising Leinster House, he was elected to Stormont in 1953 but immediately arrested and jailed for 12 months for sedition.

Seán MacBride secured Kelly's election to the Seanad in 1954. On his release on 19 August 1954, Kelly returned to a wild welcome in Pomeroy including a bloody riot with the RUC. Despite the attendant publicity Fianna Uladh faded away. Kelly turned his energies to his military organisation — Saor Uladh.

Saor Uladh remained a local phenomenon, mainly isolated to one area of Tyrone. The IRA kept a close watch, warned off republicans, and criticised Kelly for causing division.

One morning in November 1955, Kelly and a raiding party including Connie Green attacked the RUC barracks in Rosslea, County Fermanagh. Placing a mine by the guardroom window blowing it in, they swept the ground floor with gunfire and moved into the barracks.


Full article at link.

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:17

Agree on your clarification Pat C. And indeed my father was also with Connie that fateful night. From what we've spoken about he says there was clearly no left ideological bent within the movement. Indeed, SU was formed by Kelly because he disagreed with the Dublin based Marxist leadership on their direction of the struggle for reunification. They then kicked him out of the IRA on a technicality. He brought most of the Tyrone Brigade with him to form Saor Uladh. I cannot disagree with your comments on that there were socialists in the movement - I just don't know of any that were.

by pat c Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:05

Many of the members of Saor Uladh were Socialists at a time (to use a Mylesian phrase) when it was neither popular nor profitable to be so. They would not have supported the Stalinist regimes in Eastern Europe. Indeed some of them were former Trotskyists. There are few enough survivors now but in my youth I had the honour of knowing some of the Saor Uladh Volunteers, many of whom had returned to the IRA. But they retained their Socialist beliefs.

I will have a talk with my Da about this and write a more extensive article regarding this.

McBride secured Kellys election to the Seanad, this was an act of solidarity on the part of the Clann. You would have indulge in some bizarre mental gymnastics to suggest that someone who was leading an armed campaign in the North was in league with FG.

by Ciaran Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:48

"Connie had been a commando during WWII and used his training to advance the cause of a Socialist Republic"
Didn't think Saor Uladh were in the business of creating socialist republics. I was of the belief their aim was simply a unified Ireland, irrespective of what happened thereafter. Confirms this that Liam Kelly had entered into a pact with Clann Na Poblachta - which in turn had formed coalition government with Fine Gael. (Hardly - the path to a socialist republic) There is no mention of socialism in any of their literature. Also, I find the notion of creating 'socialist republics' an unpopular political stance and certain suicide pill in Catholic Ireland especially in an era where the Communists tanks were invading neighbouring countries also, 'creating socialist republics'.