The Drones Are Coming: New War On Civilians

by pat c Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:46

Yet another example of US pinpoint accuracy. While the target, Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud, was not in the house, 40 other people were. Mrs Mehsud was killed in the attacvk and four children are among the injured.

Story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8184734.stm

by Mark C Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:00

.

When in Doubt, Bomb a Small Country

Surgical Precision (U.S. Marines Style)

by Harvey Duff Wed Aug 05, 2009 15:06

For the sake of accuracy, the BBC report said that it was suspected that the missiles were fired by a US drone .It has yet to be confirmed that the attack was launched by American forces.

The regrettable death of Mrs Mehsud should be seen in the wider context of Taliban oppression of women and the general population of Afghanistan and Pakistani tribal territories. The South Waziristan tribal area, as the BBC noted in its report, is a haven for Taliban and al-Qaeda militants.

I agree wholeheartedly with the May Countercurrents article's assessment that inaccurate targetings by American forces are entirely counterproductive. They actually allow militant groups to consolidate their stranglehold on these unfortunate regions. As another report noted at the time , “ in one Taliban-controlled village, Pir Baba in Buner, the militants were holding 2,000 people as human shields in case the army attacked.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/articl...1.ece

Finally, we must never lose sight of what Pat has well described as the misery the Taliban are inflicting on the people of Pakistan .Under sharia law a woman such as Mrs Mehsud would be deemed to be worth only half the worth of a man.

by pat c Wed Aug 05, 2009 16:01

"For the sake of accuracy, the BBC report said that it was suspected that the missiles were fired by a US drone .It has yet to be confirmed that the attack was launched by American forces."

Seriously Harvey, who else do you think might be responsible for this?

"The regrettable death of Mrs Mehsud should be seen in the wider context of Taliban oppression of women and the general population of Afghanistan and Pakistani tribal territories. "

Mrs Mehsoud wasnt exactly freed from oppression by the missile from that drone. Nor were the injured children.

"Finally, we must never lose sight of what Pat has well described as the misery the Taliban are inflicting on the people of Pakistan ."

Indeed and that misery was not eased by turning 2 million people into refugees as occurred. You can blame the Taliban for that but the way in which the the Pakistani armed forces ran the campaign was also responsible.

I hate the Taliban but remember it was the actions of the Pakistani Secret Service which helped to create them.

"Under sharia law a woman such as Mrs Mehsud would be deemed to be worth only half the worth of a man."

And under the attack carried out by the US her life was deemed to be worthless along with the other 40 people in the house.

The above action will have won over many recruits to the Taliban.

by New Recruit - Non - Aligned Wed Aug 05, 2009 18:39

P W Singer of the Brookings institute has written 'wired for war'..

Have you heard the one about the UAV the free state forces brought with them to Chad.. when it lost radioi contact it autonomously flew back to base...in Ireland... it was found and wrote off several thousand kms away!! Stoopid Irishmen!

Caption: Video Id: M1pr683SYFk Type: Youtube Video
He shows us scenarios straight out of science fiction -- that now may not be so fictitious.

by New Recruit - Non Aligned Wed Aug 05, 2009 19:11

"The US has carried out thirty drone attacks on alleged al-Qaeda targets inside Pakistani territory since last summer, killing an estimated 250 people. The Predator attacks highlight the US military’s increased use of unmanned aerial vehicles and other robotic devices on the battlefield." http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/6/wired_for_war_the_...ution

I think the number kileed so far are over 600 now back in Feb it was giving as 250 Singer makes the point about Moore's Law and also Murphy's Law:
"AMY GOODMAN: P.W. Singer, you write about robots making mistakes, like in South Africa in 2007, a software glitch in a robotic gun; in ’88, a semi-automatic defense system of the USS Vincennes accidentally shoots down an Iranian passenger plane, killing all 290 people on board, including sixty-six children.

P.W. SINGER: The challenge here is that while we are gaining incredible capabilities with these systems, it doesn’t end the human mistakes and dilemmas behind them. Another way of putting it is, a lot of people are familiar with Moore’s Law, the idea that you can pack in more and more computing power, such that they double in their power every two years. It’s the reason why the Pentagon in 1960 had the amount of computing power that you and I can get from a Hallmark card right now. Now, Moore’s Law is certainly operative. These systems are getting better and better. But Murphy’s Law is still in place. And so, you get what robot executives call these “oops” moments with robots, when things don’t work out the way you want. And it’s just like, you know, our laptop computers crash. Well, imagine your laptop computer crashing with an M-16 rifle."

by pat c Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:39

The UN have warned the US that its indiscriminate drone attacks may constitute War Crimes. I the past year over 600 people have been killed in Pakistasn by US drone attacks.

The US has been warned that its use of drones to target suspected terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan may violate international law.

UN human rights investigator Philip Alston said the US should explain the legal basis for attacking individuals with the remote-controlled aircraft.

He said the CIA had to show accountability to international laws which ban arbitrary executions.

Drones have killed about 600 people in north-west Pakistan since August 2008.

Mr Alston, the UN Special Rapporteur on Extrajudicial Executions, told the BBC: "My concern is that these drones, these Predators, are being operated in a framework which may well violate international humanitarian law and international human rights law.

by Pete Wed Oct 28, 2009 13:09

"We aint seen nuthin' yet."

NASA has successfully tested an ummanned jet engined "Drone" which cruises at 100,000 feet at about 7,000 MPH....116 miles per minute.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/0506221403...5.htm

It can retrace Alcock and Browne's 1919 flight across the atlantic in about 17 minutes.
(Alcock and Browne took 16hrs and 12 mins.)

The Taliban won't see it coming.
.

.

by pat c Wed Oct 28, 2009 15:03

"The Taliban won't see it coming."

The trouble is a lot of civilians won't see it coming either.

by Pete. Wed Oct 28, 2009 16:36

"The trouble is a lot of civilians won't see it coming either."

True.

The civilians didn't see the murderous Taliban fanatics coming either.

We Irish wouldn't stick their "rule" for half an hour.

The Taliban make the Black-and-Tans look like caring kind gentlemen.
.

by pat c Wed Oct 28, 2009 16:43

I detest the Taliban as I hope is clear from my postings on Indymedia. But these attacks on innocent civilians actually build up support for the Taliban in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The US started its arming and training of those who would become the Taliban and Al Qaeda long before the USSR invaded (or gave fraternal help depending on your opinion) Afghanistan.

The chickens have truly come home to roost.

by Pete. Wed Oct 28, 2009 17:14

During the Cold War the old rule applied on both sides:

"My Enemy's Enemy is my Friend."

In America if you were against the Russians you were "on our side."

The Americans did indeed arm people who were nasty.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) famously remarked about the leader of Nicaragua:
"Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch."

Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasio_Somoza_Garc%C3%ADa
.

The British and the Russians were beaten out of Afghanistan.

The American fear is of even more American skyscrapers collapsing in flames.
With Americans jumping to certain death on live TV.

Courtesy of that gentle soul Bin Laden...still holed up in the Himalayan foothills in Afghanistan.

The Americans have ZERO "imperialist ambitions" in Afghanistan.
Who would be bothered?

The Afghan civilians always lose.
They are among the poorest and most wretched people on Earth.
.

by pat c Wed Oct 28, 2009 17:37

"The American fear is of even more American skyscrapers collapsing in flames.
With Americans jumping to certain death on live TV.

Courtesy of that gentle soul Bin Laden...still holed up in the Himalayan foothills in Afghanistan."

Much as I hate Bin Laden I have to point out that the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon was carried out by Saudis. It would have made more sense from the US point of view to attack Saudi Arabia. A country which is a savage dictatorship and which imposes (on its ordinary citizens) an interpetation of the Sharia similar to that of the Taliban. Why didn't the US act to free the SDaudis from tyranny?

by pat c Wed Oct 28, 2009 17:44

"Twin Towers and the Pentagon was carried out by Saudis."

Bin Laden is a Saudi Arabian holed up in Afghanistan.

The Americans would probably have attacked Saudia Arabia if Bin Laden was hiding there.

Pity they didn't.

Horrible place.
.

.

by Cynical Fri Oct 30, 2009 18:48

"The Americans would probably have attacked Saudia Arabia if Bin Laden was hiding there."

I'm not so sure. I doubt it. They just used the whole affair to implement geopolitical plans they had already drawn up. Invasion of saudi arabia was likely not one of those. I mean for instance, what the hell had Iraq to do with 9/11?

by pat c Mon Jan 25, 2010 20:03

Yes, things are getting even worse. Read this article to find out how bad it is.

The Drone Surge
By Nick Turse

When it comes to the drone surge, the years 2011-2013 are just the near horizon. While, like the Army, the Navy is working on its own future drone warfare capacity -- in the air as well as on and even under the water -- the Air Force is involved in striking levels of futuristic planning for robotic war. It envisions a future previously imagined only in sci-fi movies like the Terminator series
http://www.countercurrents.org/turse250110.htm

by pat c Thu Mar 11, 2010 17:29

Rick Rozoff gives an assessment of a decade of drones. Full text at link.

Decade Of The Drone: America's Aerial Assassins

2010 is the last year of the new century and millennium and is the tenth consecutive year of the United States' war in Afghanistan and in the 15-nation area of responsibility subsumed under Operation Enduring Freedom. In early March American military deaths in the Greater Afghan War theater -Afghanistan, Cuba (Guantanamo Bay), Djibouti, Eritrea, Jordan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, the Philippines, Seychelles, Sudan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Uzbekistan and Yemen - surpassed the 1,000 mark.

by Techie. Sun Mar 14, 2010 18:11

Delicate human bodies were always a hinderance to flying war machines.

A mechanical craft without a human body inside it to protect it can be pitiless on war.

If a mere machine is shot down there is no human cost........you merely crank another machine off the assembly line.

by pat c Sun May 30, 2010 22:27

Ah! The US actually admit they made a mistake. Is all ok because they reprimanded six operators of an unmanned drone. Many other "mistakes" are not admitted to because the evidence is blown into atoms. Full story at link.

The US military has reprimanded six operators of an unmanned drone, which mistakenly attacked a civilian convoy in Afghanistan killing at least 23. Warnings that the convoy was not an attacking force were ignored or played down, while the ground-force commander was not sure who was in the vehicles, an investigation found.

The deadly assault took place in Uruzgan Province in February. Civilian deaths in strikes have caused widespread resentment in Afghanistan.

A Nato statement at the time said it was thought the convoy contained Taliban insurgents on their way to attack Afghan and foreign military forces. However, troops then found "a number of individuals killed and wounded", including women and children.

by pat c Wed Aug 25, 2010 13:18

Yet another drone attack kills civilians including children. Who cares? Hilary Clinton certainly doesn't.

The Obama Administration’s policy of escalating drone strikes took another hit today, after the explosion from a drone attack against the house of “suspected militants” in North Waziristan also destroyed a neighboring house full of women and children.

The combined toll from the blast was 20 people killed, with at least four women and three children among the slain. At least 13 other civilians were also reported wounded, including a number of other children.

The large numbers of civilians (700 in 2009 alone) killed in the US drone strikes has fueled considerable anti-American sentiment in Pakistan. When pressed during a previous visit Secretary of State Hillary Clinton shrugged off concerns about the civilians, saying only “there’s a war going on.”

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Aug 25, 2010 15:33

The article titled 'Dog days' at the top of that link under Highlights is worth scanning. Not a good prognosis.

by Technologist. Fri Aug 27, 2010 21:05

It is just new technology.
Technology has been improving since long before the stone age.
A bow and arrow were "new technology" once.
As was the Machine Gun.
As was the ME109 Messerschmidt and the Spitfire.

A single modern F16 American fighter (Controlled remotely by you through Your iPhone) has within it the theoretical abiity to knock out every figher (on both sides) who waged the Battle of Britain.

Who needs delicate human bodies to go where war machines go without asking questions.

The 21st Century is not the 20th century.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:58

But these state-of-the-art, up-to-the-benchmark, cutting-edge, technologies are being deployed against defenceless civilians and children, often by kids recently out of school themselves and conditioned to play war-games since playstation landed in their laps.
Your war machines are destroying 'delicate human bodies..without asking questions'.
Somebody should.
And I think most of us noticed the calendar clocking over. If we dont master ourselves(and our gizmo-fix mentalities)the prospects into the 22nd dont look too rosey. Not the mark of adult behaviour.

by Technologist. Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:41

I was referring to a mentality rather than to a date Opus.
Some say the 19th century lingered on until 28th June 1914.

The 20th century arrived with a bang when the First World War started.

by pat c Tue Sep 28, 2010 18:03

An update on the latest drone attacks in Pakistan. Full text at link.

18 US Drone Attacks Launched This Month: North Waziristan Residents Live In Constant Fear
By Abdus Sattar Ghazali

A rare interview of a close relative of a recent US drone attack victim in North Waziristan provides some insight into the havoc created by the widespread and indiscriminate attacks that have claimed hundreds of innocent lives. This year 72 drone attacks have been launched. The latest attack was launched on Saturday (Sept. 25) killing at least seven people.

http://www.countercurrents.org/ghazali270910.htm

by pat c Tue Apr 12, 2011 13:06

And sometimes the drones return to prey on their owm.

Afghanistan: Drone missile 'killed two US soldiers'

A drone missile strike is suspected of killing two US soldiers by mistake in southern Afghanistan last week, US military officials have said.

The apparent case of "friendly fire" is being investigated - if it is confirmed it would be a rare instance of pilotless aircraft killing US forces.

The incident took place in Helmand province where US-led troops are trying to push back Taliban insurgents.

US drones frequently target suspected militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Critics say hundreds of civilians have also been killed in such strikes in recent years.

The two US soldiers who lost their lives - sergeant Jeremy Smith, 26, and seaman Benjamin Rast, 23 - were part of a unit sent to reinforce marines coming under heavy fire from insurgents outside the town of Sangin, US network NBC News, which first reported the incident, said.

The marines, who were watching a video feed from the armed Predator drone overhead, saw infrared images moving towards them on the feed and may have concluded that those were insurgents instead of fellow marines, NBC reported.

The Pentagon has yet to comment on the deaths, saying they are being investigated.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Apr 12, 2011 13:51

'the twentieth century arrived.. with the First World war'. No change in the 'mentality'. Still Stone Age.

Confucius, Buddha, Socrates were as modern as humanity gets, centuries back. These dates are abstractions WE use. As a technologist you should know thats not the shape of space/time. WWII showed how the technology of the twentieth century could be mobilised to facilitate the primitive tribalism of the most agressive and barbaric of our species. All our hi-tech toys cant mask our sub-human bestiality when we can control a killing machine over planetary distance but remain incapable of restraining our lowest instincts.

by Silicon Head. Sat Apr 16, 2011 21:54

Not even Confucius could take out a platoon of tanks from 60,000 feet high and 7,000 miles from base. Accurate to a few inches.
And no human on board the aircraft.
The power of the silicon microprocessor reaches the battlefield.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun Apr 17, 2011 13:06

Unfortunately, en route, your chips are taking out quite a few women and children(and non-combatant men). But then, when they're OUR bombs its fair game. Its THEIR bombs are the terrorist ones. That'll teach them to get born over an oil reservoir.

'..no human on board the aircraft ', is right.
Monkeys at the remote controls. Silicon dont do neurons, only switches.

The age of sophisticated idiocy didn't just come down with the last shower, its been here a while, and just gone hyperbolical. Mind that silicosis.

by pat c Fri Apr 22, 2011 19:32

Not just disregard but total and utter contempt for civilian lives. God bless the US as they bring "Christian" Salvation to Pakistan.

Pakistan: US drone raid 'kills 25' in N Waziristan

At least 25 people have been killed in a US drone strike in the troubled Pakistani tribal region of North Waziristan, officials told the BBC.

Missiles were fired on a large compound in the town of Spinwam, but five women and four children in a nearby house were also killed.

Friday's strike comes a day after Pakistani army chief, Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, told the US military's top officer, Adm Mike Mullen, that drone strikes complicated Pakistan's "national" war against the militants.

by pat c Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:52

Full text at link.

The US is intensifying its drone attacks in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan, bordering Afghanistan, as the Pakistani army prepares a major military operation against Islamist militants in North Waziristan.

The latest attack on Friday involved missile strikes from CIA-controlled drones on three separate locations in North Waziristan. According to unnamed Pakistani intelligence officials, 18 “suspected militants” were killed. As in previous attacks, most casualties would undoubtedly have been civilians, including women and children.

The Associated Press reported that the strikes came just minutes apart on mud brick compounds located several kilometres from each other in the Shawal Valley. The area is mountainous and heavily forested, and serves as a crossing point into Afghanistan for insurgent groups opposed to the US-led occupation.

Citing local tribesmen, the Pakistani newspaper, News International, reported: “The people who helped retrieve the bodies from the debris of the collapsed buildings said all the bodies had been burnt and torn into pieces. They said the bodies were beyond recognition.” Some 14 injured people were taken to local health facilities, where doctors reported that most were in a critical condition.
The drone attacks, in blatant violation of Pakistani sovereignty, came less than 24 hours after Islamabad had issued a formal protest to an unnamed senior American diplomat over attacks earlier in the week. A Pakistani foreign ministry spokesman described the drone strikes as “illegal and unproductive” during a press briefing last Friday.