After the FERNS Report, the RYAN Report and the latest DUBLIN DIOCESE report what questions remain?

by Vatican - The Catholic Church and the vulnerable Sun Nov 08, 2009 16:27

Well written Brigid. The time has come for the Church to stand accountable.

You would think Ireland is a separate Vatican City established as in Italy as a distinct entity from the State or the Republic for that matter.

Much Church property was sold during the Boom. I ask where did the money that accrued to the Church go to? Was it invested in Ireland or did it wind its way back to Vatican City.

We don't hear the Catholic Church in Ireland bleeting about the impact of the world economic crash. Where did it invest its capital?

Where is the regulation by the State of the Church?

Who stands accountable?

Can someone explain Divorce in Ireland viz a viz discrimination of a person by the Church who first spent thousands of pounds getting a divorce and then suffered the humiliation of the annulment court (why such silence - there must be more humbled by the ogres of the Church annulment brigade.

The Immaculate Deception and the House of Prayer....the book is a must. Why did the Church not take a stand? How could such corruption and deception take place while the Catholic Church reigns supreme in all sectors of our country. This nemisis started back in 1988.

We need the Criminal Assets Bureau or the Fraud Square or even the God Squad to investigate just how such an antrocity good be allowed to happen on Achill. Even Failte Ireland promoted this Visionary! When do we stop making money on the back of vulnerable people

What about tax evasion and the Vatican conundrum? The problem is we in Ireland still cannot see tax evasion as a criminal offence.

by Brigid Collins Sat Nov 07, 2009 19:46

The Clergy of all ranks think they are above the law of the land and immune to prosecution and therefore they look down their noses at the laity and those they abuse feeling they have the right to do as they please with impunity.

The Gardai and the State over the years aided and abetted their crimes against the abused by turning a blind eye and deaf ear and not following up appeals for help or investigating complaints.

There is a lot of rot in the Catholic Church and in the Gardai and many State services who have hidden these unspeakable crimes by Priests, Bishops and Archbishops for over the last 50 years.

It is time the laity marched on the Churches and forced the Church to account for its wrongdoings.

It is also time to stop donating money to the Catholic Church. They have their properties, lands and Churches and are sitting on it in Banks and not paying it out to the survivors of abuse in any large amount so why do we continue to fund them to hoard more money away while being so mean with their compensation payments.

Think about it. DO NOT SUPPORT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. They do not pay their debts to the victims.

by Victim of the Catholic Church Sat Nov 07, 2009 19:43

From what I have witnessed personally in the last few years the Clergy and the Church are still above the law and not accountable to anyone but themselves.

They have an endless pit of money to pay for the best lawyers money can buy to dig them out of the holes they have made for themselves.

When you start off with a case against them in Tribunals they push things along when they don't like the results they get with appeals to the Circuit Court. When they arrive in Court their Senior Barristers announce even before the hearing that should they dare to give a decision against the Church they will appeal to the High Court and if things go against them there they will go all the way to the Supreme Court in order to WIN at any cost knowing most of the time that the victims do not have the resources to keep on going in the Courts so they hope they will give up. Some have lost their homes in legal fees but kept up the fight for justice.

The bottom line is that it is the Irish people who have funded the Catholic Church and given them their riches with collections at masses, Dues several times a year, buying Masses, making donations to local Clergy.

WE MUST STOP ALL FINANCIAL DONATIONS TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NOW AND FOREVER.

If all of this money to the Clergy dried up then maybe they would not have an endless amount of money to buy the groups of Senior Barristers they keep in business 24/7 to fight for all of them.

These are corrupt men who should be in a prison of a standard that they inflicted on their victims of abuse but they willl never see the inside of a prison. If they did unfortunately they would have all mod cons and not a day of suffering other than the loss of their freedom. They would never suffer what their victims did. In other words even if they got prison it would never be real justice in the form of an eye for an eye.

There is a lot to be said for the justice of the old Testament as these men deserve an eye for an eye. To some it may seem like revenge but to others it seems more like REAL JUSTICE.

They did the crime now they should do the time!!!!

Most of the clergy live in better conditions than the Irish citizen all paid for by the laity. They get their free house, subsidised holidays (they call retreats and sabbaticals), perks too like half price membership to local golf clubs and health centres, invited to all the best socials in their area for photo ops. What a life. No mortgage to worry about, no job loss too worry about or unemployment they have a job for life can do as they like abuse away with no accountability they will just be moved to another cushy Parish where people welcome them with a party and treat them like Gods.

It is enough to make a PIG SICK.

WE SHOULD STOP ALL DONATIONS TO CHURCHES AND CLERGY.

WE SHOULD HAVE OPEN PROTESTS AT LOCAL CHURCHES AND NOT ATTEND CHURCH SERVICES.

WE SHOULD WARN OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN OF THE DANGERS THAT LURK WHEREVER A MEMBER OF THE CLERGY IS PRESENT.

WE SHOULD ALSO WARN ALL CITIZENS OF THE COLLUSION STILL BETWEEN CLERGY AND GARDAI.

by Hubris Sat Nov 07, 2009 16:54

That's a fairly simple question to answer:

What is left is to find out who did not do their job, and why. Name names. There were countless dept inspectors who inspected these facilities. if reports were filed of this abuse, something which it appears was done on only a vey few occasions, those reports were ignored.

Who made those descions to ignore those reports?

I heard recently on the radio a spokesperson for one of the Teachers Unions say that the biggest opposition to the 'Stay Safe' program was from within the Dept of Education itself. the RTE presenter did her best to ignore the implictions of that statement

The Union requested a meeting with the Dept over the issue. When the Union reps turned up, into the room walked the Dept of Ed person dealing with the issue. The Union rep stated that he immediatly recognised the Dept of Ed person as a high up member of the Knights of Columbanus and knew him to be an oponent of the Stay Safe program.

so the question has to be asked "Why was an knight of Columbanusand known opponent to the Stay Safe program, appointed to be the Depts liason on this issue?"

Most of this was possible due to the connivance of various Department of Education Inspectors and Policemen, some of whom HAD to have been members of The Knights of Columbanus, which in my personal opinion is nothing but a Catholic Freemason-like organisation

One of the more infamous Diocese for this was the Diocese of Ferns . The Bishop and the Local Garda (Police) Chief Super-Intendant were both members of this organisation. I have it on vry good authority that apparently the Chief Super confessed (on his death-bed, no less: talk about ‘dramatic’) to membership and to having covered up sexual abuse by the Priests due to his having been a member of that organisation. He actually stated that the Bishop, Brendan Comiskey had asked him to do so, as a fellow Knight.

So: how many of the people responsible for covering up this abuse over the years were members of the Knights?

Who watches the Watchers?

by Shepherd Butterly - The Catholic Church Sat Nov 07, 2009 16:13

Yes Power corrupts and it corrupts absolutely but what are the Catholic Church really doing to protect the people.

Jim Gallagher has written a book called Immaculate Deception and I would say it is a must for every member of the Catholic Church to read. This is about a woman, supposedly a visionary and gullible, no doubt lonely people, being duped of massive amounts of money to hear of her visions of Our Lady.

When does the nonsense stop and when does the Catholic Church proper protect its flock.

Where is the CAB......

surely if there is even a centimetre of truth in the findings of this investigative journalists work, then there must be a law and a DPP decision imminent - and I mean a DPP decision to press ahead with charges against this woman and those affiliated in her works of deception on truly vulnerable people.

Just because someone starts from a humble beginning they have no right to ride rough shod over the 'vulnerable' rich, poor, disabled, whatever. Ireland is supposed to be the country of Saints and Scholars - Where are they? This House of Prayer is born out the last recession starting around 1988 and building strength on strength i.e financially for the alleged woman and contingent. It is quite amazing if you consider it and its mission for Peace coincides with the evolution of the Peace Process. This indicates an added dimension of people to the category called vulnerable.

Why did the Catholic Church allow this to happen? There is a divestiture of responsibility within the Church to a myriad of self important splinter groups and the Church is neglecting its flock. There is book written a few decades ago about the Shepherd who had lost his flock - well, nothing has changed

by Anti Church Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:34

The heading above is it in a nutshell.

POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

The Church have had the power since time began and the people followed in blind faith like sheep.

Now they can see the corruption before their own eyes when their children have been abused by all the Shepherds who instead of looking after their sheep abused them.

Time the Shepherds NOT the sheep were taken to the slaughter house.

by Joan Fri Jul 31, 2009 19:36

Heard this website that not many knew about has been getting tons of recent hits.

Goes to show the dissatisfaction with the church.

Please pass the website info around.

by Woman who took on the Catholic Church Thu Jul 30, 2009 01:17

There is serious need for legislation here in Ireland to protect whistleblowers.

Some do speak up and it ruins their own lives as a result.

Case in point - male supervisor working for Church harrassed woman working in the same building, had S & M porn and used her computer to send risque emails.

She and another female employee complained separately two weeks apart to the Parish Priest at the Church.

What happened? One of the whistleblowers was out of her job in less than two months and 4 years later is still fighting for her rights through the Courts and Tribunals.

She is STILL GLAD she stood up to the might of the Church and complained.

However the porn man stayed on in his job for a further two years giving an up yours to the ladies who complained about the abuse in the workplace.

The Parish Priest still won't admit HE was in the wrong to CONDONE the porn and keep the man working there while dismissing one of the whistleblowers.

by Churchgoer Wed Jul 29, 2009 01:39

Photo is of the current Parish Priest of Our Lady Queen of Peace Parish Bray - formerly of St. Mary's Lucan and Rowlagh.

Any Parishioners from the other Parishes that he served in have any interesting contributions to make to this thread?

You can check out the current Parish at the link below but he has been AWOL for the past week or so!!!

Parish Priest Fr. Larry White Queen of Peace Bray

by Anne's Summer Project Director Tue Jul 28, 2009 00:51

WHAT NEXT - IS THIS IN VERY "BAD TASTE" HAVING REGARD TO RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PARISH.

Parish can order a RAID on ex staff members house and then runs a summer project in August for local children with

A MEET YOUR LOCAL GARDA SESSION as one of the highlights!

Are they going to explain to them what happens when the local Garda raids your home?

Are they going to tell them if you complain about PORN IN THE WORKPLACE they will get YOUR LOCAL GARDA to come take you down to the station for hours of questioning under caution late in the evening????????

Are they going to tell you that said Garda will also come back and take you down a second time and TAKE FINGER PRINTS AND DNA SAMPLES on a Bank Holiday Sunday???????

IS THIS SCARY STUFF FOR YOUNG KIDS?????

Of course the organiser of the project is none other than a lady whose husband is a Retired Sargeant - connections, connections, connections.

Are you going to pay this PARISH to give your children this education????????

TO BOOK THE PROJECT WEEK go to website below for details under Newsletter.

However we ADVISE YOU to check out the Parish Child Protection Policy first and make sure you can TRUST IT. Reason to be so careful -

2 female members of staff made a complaint to the Parish Priest there about a male staff member having porn and he remained in the workplace for a further 2 years working in the same office as young female staff.

WOULD YOU TRUST YOUR CHILD TO THIS PARISH??????

by Lapsed Catholic and Proud of it Tue Jul 28, 2009 00:11

After all the cases of abuse in Ireland people are leaving the Roman Catholic Church in droves. Many just walk away and say nothing but others want to make a statement and let the Church know they are leaving and why.

If you are one of the hundreds or thousands considering doing this officially then this website is for you and the link is below.

It is a great site which in 3 simple steps produces all the documentation you need to leave the Roman Catholic Church.

The Count Me Out website is a source of information for those considering leaving the Roman Catholic Church (RCC).

For many who no longer practice, remaining "lapsed" is not sufficient; a clean break is needed. You want to inform your Diocese exactly why you are leaving and what you think right now of the Church in light of all the abuse scandals etc.

The 'Declaration of Defection' can be mailed off to your local Bishop and Parish.

Let them know you are no longer going to contribute financially to their money grabbing corrupt organisation.

by Faye Murphy Mon Jul 27, 2009 16:09

For some years we have not been able to pick up a newspaper or turn on the radio or tv without hearing of some form of abuse and corruption within the Catholic Church.

It is time for those of us who used to have respect for the Church to show them exactly how we feel now by using our feet to walk out of the doors of our local Churches.

Either that or we should sit in protest outside during Mass times, hand out leaflets, wave banners and fight back for ownership of our own Churches and Parishes from the corrupt men who now seem to run them.

No good complaining to the Bishops or higher up the scale - these men have long ago lost it and don't even pay attention any more to what is going on around them.

What a sad, sad, day for our country that the land of Saints and Scholars is no more.

It has slid into the murky depths of corruption, despair, cover ups and downright dishonesty of the majority of the Clergy and this Parish in Bray in particular.

Why do we have to put up with the "dregs of Society" running our Parishes.

It is time to bring in dynarod and flush out all the abusers and perverts and send them down the drains where they belong so they can abuse our children no more.

The Dublin Diocesan Report will sicken us even more as if we have not been sickened enough already. It will eventually show up on two websites link to one below.

by Bray man - Green Party Mon Jul 27, 2009 15:58

Interesting read. Also There is a link on the queen of peace website to An Garda Siochhna

by ReligionIsNonsense Mon Jul 27, 2009 00:16

Why do you need a middle man anyway? Just talk to god directly if you have a need to. Ideally just dump the whole religion thing and face reality without crutches. It has the added bonus of leaving you less vulnerable to people like this.

by Siobhan Latham - Abuse Survivors Network Cork Sun Jul 26, 2009 18:49

It makes me for one as a member of the laity as sick as a parrot to read that just ONE Diocese in Ireland has had losses of €7million. If they have losses of that amount what had they squirrelled away and invested in the first place one would have to ask!!!!!!!

Why are the thousands of abuse victims from the FERNS, RYAN and DUBLIN DIOCESE put through endless trauna of the Redress Board to get their meagre compensation when this wealthy Church has millions and millions squirrelled away in investments in EVERY DIOCESE in the country. They really want to make the victims suffer more abuse at their hands over and over again that is one thing for sure. They have no hearts, no conscience, they just think of themselves and their precious money, land, buildings all of which bring them wealth and comforts that they do not deserve. We hear of them living in Archbishops PALACE and Bishops PALACES - have these guys ever done a real hard days work in their lives to earn such cushy standards of living - all paid for we might add by us the laity and our donations that we can ill afford to give.

Day in day out, week after week, month after month, year after year, every Church in every Diocese in Ireland puts on the POUR MOUTH AND OUT COMES THE BEGGING BOWL YET AGAIN.

You are to give to this, give to that, drop your donations into the basket or envelopes - silent collections (notes only!!!) recommended - it is like OLIVER saying SIR I WANT SOME MORE.

To most of us now the Church looks like nothing more than a down and out organisation with a REALLY BAD NAME AND REPUTATION.

I mean who in their right mind would want to be a member or touch it with the PROVERBIAL BARGE POLE?

Many of us have taken our children out of our Parishes where they used to be Altar servers - how can we trust any of these guys any more? We don't care if they have so called Child Protection Policies in place we just don't trust any of them any more with our children's wellbeing and safety. As the Church has not named and shamed most of them or thrown most of them out of the Church how are we to know that the next one we meet in his vestments is not a past abuser?? We are not waiting to find out if their THERAPY worked or not we in the meantime are not allowing our children anywhere near these men.

It all seems far too little and far too late putting all these Child Protection Policies in place when the horse has already bolted and thousands have already been damaged for life, committed suicide and abused endlessly and systematically for decades. How dare they think that a bit of paper with rules and regulations after all of the cover ups can somehow make us feel that our children are now safe around members of the Clergy.

Corrupt lying, abusing, money grabbing clergy, putting themselves and their shabby, tattered non existent reputation before all else while they try to climb back out of the snake pit that they have now created for themselves.

They have become a NEST OF VIPERS and God help any pour soul who unwittingly falls into their clutches because you will never shake yourself free of these evil men until they do their utmost to ruin you as a human being and as a child of God. Do they care that God is their ultimate Boss possibly keeping some notes for the day of entry at the Gates of Peter? Most unlikely in my estimation these evil men don't fear anyone, they have made themselves into little Gods without fear of the hand of a higher power eventually catching up with them and setting things straight.

Unfortunately for us as Catholics if we are still trying to hang in there and remain a member of the Church this is how things are and it does not look like it is going to get better any time soon.

Not at least while these (UN)holy men are aided and abetted by those higher up the ranks when they should be slapped down and thrown out for the untold damage they have already inflicted on their Church and its members.

God forgive the lot of them because most of us have by now hardened our hearts and find forgiveness in VERY VERY SHORT SUPPLY. We have suffered far too much for far too long.

For anyone who MAY want to read up on Church protection policies and see if it in any way reassures them that their children are safe around the clergy can do so by logging on to dublindiocese.ie

You can also get links there if you have been abused as to organisations who can give you help and counselling.

by Pauline Ferris - Survivors of abuse network Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:57

As heading says I for one am not at all surprised by this.

I have 3 relatives abused as children by the Clergy.

The Gardai then were complicit as were the Politicians in covering all these unpopular things up from the public domain but thanks to modern technology now nothing can hide away for too long.

My relatives have had years of counselling and are still trying to come to terms with their lost childhoods.

They live in fear of all authority figures - they do not trust anyone any more the Gardai, the Clergy, the Politicians and the legal profession. Everyone seems to want to make a fast buck out of the abused and jump on the bandwagon.