Ahmadinejad’s possible role in savage beatings

by Mouse.avi Sat Dec 05, 2009 16:00

Great. but I hope what replaces it is better. Not some imperialist puppet regime. Tread carefully, people of Iran

by Jerry Cornelius Sat Dec 05, 2009 16:50

You need have no worries about Yassamine. She, along with HOPI, opposes any Imperialist opposition in Iran. Any regime change in Iran must come from below and within. The people who protest on the streets of Iran against the Theocracy also oppose imperialism. Just enter Iran ion the search field and you will find many articles by HOPI members opposing US imperialist adventures against Iran.

by Fred Johnston Sat Dec 05, 2009 20:20

I make no apology for feeling very uneasy when a state that the US has targeted as an enemy suddenly becomes rife with stories of despotism and human rights violations. The US, let's not forget, continues to execute people who are of provable intellectual handicap, back the murderous incursions of the Israel army, and provide shelter for the likes of Henry Kissinger, a warm criminal; so enough already of human rights rubbish from the US. I have reached the point where I simply dismiss any story purporting to be a true account of unrest if it emanates from a country the US wants 'adjusted.'

by pat c Sun Dec 06, 2009 15:02

It may be old buti ts still relevant. Especially if the Iranian ""president was involved". This week Victor Jara who was tortured and murdered in 1973 by the Chilean Junta is being reburied. Is that old?

How are you helping the People of Iran by supporting the Iranian Dictatorship? How is that going to stop US aggression?

In Iran trade unions are banned, workers are flogged and imprisoned for going on strike. Are you denyng the reality of the repression that exists in Iran? Are you saying that the the Iranian people are not entitled to Human Rights because the US is the enemy of the Iranian Dictatorship?

Why should anyone in Ireland oppose US aggression against Iran if that means supporting the Iranaian government? Do you think Irish workers think unions should be banned in Iran? Do Irish students think that Iranian students should be shot in the streets?

You can oppose US Imperialism and also oppose the Theocracy.

Fred, David Norris, Ivana Bacik, Deirdre Clancy, support Hands Off the People of Iran. Do you think they are in league with US Imperialism? International supporters of HOPI include Ken Loach, John Pilger, Maomi Kleim, Noam Chomsky. They all believe that it is possible to oppose US Aggression and also oppose the Iranian Theocracy.

Here are the HOPI Demands:

No to imperialist war!
No to the theocratic regime!
The immediate and unconditional withdrawal of US/UK troops from the Gulf region!
Opposition to Israeli expansionism and aggression!
Support to all working class and progressive struggles in Iran against poverty and repression!
Support for socialism, democracy and workers' control in Iran!
For a nuclear-free Middle East in a nuclear-free world!

http://hopoi.org/

Fred, if you support these demands then I ask you to join with HOPI in campaigning against Imperialist WAr and in support of Democratic Rights in Iran.

Contact:
HOPI Ireland
anne@hopoi.info)
http://www.hopi-ireland.org/

by Fred Johnston Sun Dec 06, 2009 15:31

I am not quite sure where Victor Jara comes in to all of this. I do reserve the personal right to be sceptical; would we be hearing so much about Iran if Israel and the United States didn't want to neuter its nuclear ambitions? I do sincerely hope that other countries around the globe are campaigning internationally to have removed the bishops who stood by and did nothing while child abuse, arguably one of the greatest humanitarian crimes, was perpetrated by Catholic priests in our own country.

I would condemn human rights abuses wherever they occur, in Iran or elsewhere, that's not an issue. What I am old enough to remember is the destabilising work of the CIA and others in various countries throughout the world over the decades where 'change' was required by the US. You can be sure that something of the sort would be employed in Iran too. I am asking that people ask questions. Always, always, question and question again. That's all.

by pat c Sun Dec 06, 2009 15:41

Victor Jara was killed by a dictatorship. Just as people are being killed by the Iranian dictatorship. Just as those who struggle for democracy in Honduras, Burma and China are shot down in the streets.

Fred, I think you should ask some questions of the Iranian Embassy. Ask them why unions are banned in Iran, why are protesters shot down in the street? Why are women denied basic human rights? Then ask yourself how you could possibly build a campaign against the US imperialist aggression towards Iran without also calling for democracy in Iran.

by pat c Sun Dec 06, 2009 15:52

I think this would an ideal opportunity to post an extract from a speech by Mike McNair at the recent HOPI UK AGM. Full text at link.

Sanctions represent an extremely serious threat to the people of Iran. It is important to be clear that sanctions are a clinical word for what is in fact military blockade. Blockade of trade is an act of war. Not as sharp and immediate as dropping bombs, to be sure. But if an army were to surround London and, while allowing food and medical supplies in, refused to let in petrol and so on, no-one would have any hesitation describing that as an act of war. It is a form that has existed since classical antiquity and before: a siege. In essence, ‘sanctions’ are a euphemism for besieging a country.

Not Bush, the warmonger, but US state interests lie behind US policy in the Middle East. It does not make any difference having a Democrat and a black face in the White House if those state interests continue to determine the underlying structure of US policy.

What are those interests? One - the Carter doctrine, dating formally to 1980 - asserts that “An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force”. “Outside force”, in this context, obviously does not include the US!

by Fred Johnston Sun Dec 06, 2009 15:54

You seem to me to be saying that no democratisation is possible in Iran without the United States and that is precisely the US argument. How are you on the topic of US support for an Israeli regime some of whose government can't step off a plane in Europe without being arrested? The Iranians must, as a sovereign country, take things into their own hands: it is not up to the West to patronise them by arguing that they need, like recalcitrant children, to be shown the right way. Do you think that the US does not dish out inhumane treatment to its own citizens, a country which still executes convicted criminals whose mental capacities are provably deficient?

by pat c Sun Dec 06, 2009 16:03

You seem to me to be saying that no democratisation is possible in Iran without the United States""

Thats untrue. Have you even read my comments above? I quite clearly oppose any US intervention.

""How are you on the topic of US support for an Israeli regime some of whose government can't step off a plane in Europe without being arrested? ""

You didnt even bother to read the comments which made it quite clear that HOPI is opposed to Imperialism.

""The Iranians must, as a sovereign country, take things into their own hands: it is not up to the West to patronise them by arguing that they need, like recalcitrant children, to be shown the right way. "

Its quite clear above that HOPI supports the right of the Iranian People to determine their own destiny. Read the comments.

Do you think that the US does not dish out inhumane treatment to its own citizens, a country which still executes convicted criminals whose mental capacities are provably deficient? "

You are now setting up men of straw arguments. I have made my opposition to the US quite plain. The execution of those with limited mental capacities in the US is barbaric. So is the execution of those under 18 in Iran. All executions are barbaric.

All anyone has to is scroll back up, read my remarks and see that you are misrepresenting what I wrote. I dont know how you think that will advance your argument or build support for Iran against the US threats.

by jim Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:18

It certainly looks like the current Iranian “president” to me . 25 years later he hasn’t changed his appearance very much apart from a few grey hairs . The same angry almost demonic expression . It would come as no surprise to me if it was the same tyrant given the repression of the democratic green revolution since the theft of the election earlier this year.

However, it must be said that the weekly worker article was unfair on the SWP when it said ,

“It is a shame that 25 years later and at a time when millions of Iranians are on the street protesting against the Islamic regime one cannot find much solidarity with the Iranian working class from the SWP leadership.”

The SWP was at the forefront in defence of the green revolution against the Ahmadinejad’s Islamic thugs and the fraudulent election result .
See for instance these articles from June.
“People are right to be angry with the thugs around Ahmadinejad and have had enough of the endemic corruption of the Iranian Theocracy.”
http://www.swp.ie/index.php?page=162&dept=News
The elections in Iran, and the mass protests against fraud that followed, have revealed the deep divisions at the heart of Iran’s ruling class.
http://www.swp.ie/index.php?page=164&dept=News

by pat c Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:24

For many years the British SWP were unstinting in their support of the Iranian Theocracy. They even attacked those who supported striking Iranian workers. I am glad that they have now changed their position on this.

I do not wish to divert this thread from its real purpose which is to build support for the Iranian disidents who oppose the Regime and who also oppose US Imperialism. I suggest you enter Iran in the search box and it will bring you to articles regarding all opinions on Iran.

by jim Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:32

Yes Patsy ,let's not divert from the real issue.
Iranian students have been protesting today - which is Student’s Day in the country - against the theft of the June election
Students of Tehran's Amir Kabir University issued the following online statement.
"We are asking all people to come to universities so we can have one voice to protest at the coup d'etat," said the statement, issued by the group going under the name "Green university students of Iranian universities."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jSxn...bQZ0Q

by pat c Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:38

If you are going to get silly with name calling it doesnt help.

HOPI have for many years supported the student struggles when the British SWP were denouncing them.

My support for the Iranian People and my opposition to both Imperialism and the Iranian Regime is clear from the articles on Indy over the years.

by pat c Mon Dec 07, 2009 14:57

More on protests in Tehran

Video appears to show Iranian students protesting outside Tehran University

Iranian security forces have clashed violently with opposition supporters in central Tehran, witnesses say.

Police used batons and tear gas, according to the witnesses. There were also unconfirmed reports of security forces using live rounds.

State media confirmed there had been clashes, though a foreign media ban means details cannot be verified.

The violence came on the day that Iran holds an annual commemoration for the killing of three students in 1953.

Early on Monday, hundreds of Iranian police were reported to have surrounded Tehran University to try to block protests.

by jim Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:52

"For many years the British SWP were unstinting in their support of the Iranian Theocracy." ..........PatC

That is a smear and a lie . Pat Corcoran knows full well that the SWP has never supported the Iranian theocracy let alone supported it unstintingly .Think about the inferences .Corcoran and HOPI supporters have repeatedly referred to the Iranian theocracy as “fascist” or “Islamo-fascist” on this site and others . By saying that the SWP has given " unstinting support" to the Iranian theocracy they are clearly inferring that the SWP have been unstintingly supporting fascism .
Now Fred Johnson is getting the same treatment . Johnson has never written a word in support of the Iranian dictatorship . He wrote above about his “ unease” about the real purpose of articles like the one by P. Cole .

“I make no apology for feeling very uneasy when a state that the US has targeted as an enemy suddenly becomes rife with stories of despotism and human rights violations”.

That unease is shared by the vast majority of rational opponents of war and does not make Fred Johnson a supporter of dictatorship.

by pat c Wed Dec 09, 2009 14:18

Iranian Socialist Torab Saleh writes on how the SWP undermined the Anti War Movement in Britain through their uncritical support for the Iranian Regime. Full text at link.

Who Killed off the Anti-War Movement?
Torab Saleth, June 21 2007

Have you ever wondered what happened to the mass anti-war movement which in London alone
brought out almost two million people before the invasion of Iraq in February 2003? How come no such
huge response is at hand when we are faced with a similar plan for Iran?

Who killed it off? Well, if you don’t have time and want a short answer, just follow the practice of a large section of the
British left led by the Socialist Workers Party. Don’t think, just follow the SWP - they can show you all
you need to know about making the movement unattractive to almost all decent human beings: by
collaborating with supporters of the semi-fascistic islamic fundamentalist regime in Iran.

Ask British workers to march alongside the same people who are imprisoning, torturing and killing their
fellow workers in Iran and carry posters saying, “We are all Hezbollah now!” Or ask students, teachers,
writers, women activists, academics and peace campaigners to come out and oppose the imperialist
war while holding hands with the supporters of those who are killing their brothers and sisters in Iran and
who collaborate with the same imperialist armies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

For those of you who need a bit of theory, then you will also have to learn apologetics for the Tehran
regime. Again, the method is simple, known to opportunists since the time of the Phoenicians: the
enemy of my enemy is my friend. Of course, the likes of the SWP with its string of Marxist ‘scholars’
have a more modern explanation. Well, a string of explanations. We will just examine one.
Before going over the arguments of the apologists, let us just recall what type of regime we are dealing
with. This is the same capitalist regime which killed off one of the most important revolutions of the 20th
century. The same regime which only a few months after the overthrow of the shah banned the free
press in Iran, suppressed all forms of freedom of assembly, made all non-governmental political parties
illegal, arrested worker activists, forced the veil on women and started a military campaign against the
national minorities.

by pat c Wed Dec 09, 2009 15:26

" Johnson has never written a word in support of the Iranian dictatorship . He wrote above about his “ unease” about the real purpose of articles like the one by P. Cole . "

The article is an interview writh Iranian Socialist Yassamine Mather, P. Cole only posted it here. Yassamine has a long and consistent record of opposing Imperialisn and the Islamic Regime. Indeed Yassamine also fought against the Shahs forces. I'm suprised that anyone would have unease about an article written by an Anti-Imperialist which is about the torture of dissidents.

Why would you feel unease about it if you were opposed to both the Iranian Regime and US Imperialism?

by pat c Wed Dec 09, 2009 17:23

Some more comments by Yassamine Mather:

Indeed at the last conference of the Stop the War Coalition in October 2007 it was SWP comrades who lead the rapturous applause for Campaign Iran’s Somaya Zadeh when she belittled the repressive actions of the Iranian state in an astonishing display of apologetics. She outlined what she saw as five “lies”. ‘Lie’ number five was that “Iran is an undemocratic and repressive country” .
http://hopidisc.blogspot.com/2009/03/wave-of-repression....html

At the same time, these events have exposed the ignorance of groups such as the Socialist Workers Party, whose leaders kept informing us about the virtues of Islamic democracy in Iran. We have seen the selection of candidates by an unrepresentative nominated council of guardians; the role of the supreme leader in inventing the results of an election; and the brutal repression of legal and official opponents. If that is what the regime can do to its own, one can imagine the kind of treatment reserved for its opponents.

But even under the threat of beatings and executions, an overwhelming majority of the Iranian people have shown that they do not believe SWP-type apologia. No-one in their right mind should ever make such claims again. Hopi’s judgement was correct and we did not compromise our principles; that is why, now that the Iranian working class is in need of international solidarity more than ever, we are in a good position to help deliver it.
http://hopidisc.blogspot.com/2009/06/death-to-islamic-r....html

Some material from the Guardian and Independent when the SWP prevented HOPI from affiliating to the Stop the War Coalition in Britain.

Disagreement has broken out between activists within the anti-war movement after the Stop the War Coalition refused to allow HOPI, a group that campaigns against military intervention in Iran, to join its ranks.

The decision has prompted a number of prominent activists, including Peter Tatchell and Michael Mansfield QC, to accuse the coalition of being apologists for the Iranian government by "refusing to allow any criticism" of the Tehran regime.

There is a bitter division within the anti-war movement over human rights abuses perpetrated by the Iranian regime amid bellicose US policies towards Iran. A growing number of activists have begun arguing that the anti-war left is too willing to turn a blind eye to the Ayatollahs' policies.

"None of the outrageous crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Iranian government have ever been condemned by the Stop the War Coalition," Peter Tatchell said. "There's a worrying minority within the anti-war movement who are out-and-out apologists of the Tehran regime."

Attila the Stockbroker said: "Various members of the left are prepared to make very bizarre friendships with regimes that they should have nothing to do with. I'm completely puzzled how anyone could adopt such an uncritical attitude to a regime that persecutes homosexuals, leftists and women."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/antiwar-a....html

This is a letter published in The Guardian on 6 November 2007.

As long-time supporters of the anti-war movement, we are alarmed by the decision of the Stop the War Coalition (StWC) to reject the affiliation of Hands Off the People of Iran (Hopi). The StWC claims Hopi's aims and campaigns are "entirely hostile" to the anti-war movement.

In fact it is committed to two humanitarian objectives: opposition to western sanctions or military attacks on Iran, and solidarity with the struggles of Iranian democrats, socialists, women, students, workers and oppressed minority nationalities against the Ahmadinejad regime. Hopi is totally opposed to externally imposed regime change. It supports democracy from below and within.

We are deeply concerned that the StWC refuses to allow any criticism of the tyranny in Tehran and that it opposes solidarity with progressive Iranians working for human rights and social justice. We reject both Bush's war-mongering and the despotism of the Iranian regime, and so should the StWC.

Michael Mansfield, Peter Tatchell, Derek Wall, Lisa Goldman, Sue Blackwell, Attila the Stockbroker, Dave Osler, Mohamad Reza Shalgouni, Yassamine Mather

by Alan MacSimoin Thu Dec 10, 2009 02:48

“I make no apology for feeling very uneasy when a state that the US has targeted as an enemy suddenly becomes rife with stories of despotism and human rights violations”.

It's quite sensible to check out stories which come from people with a vested interest. I would certainly check the facts behind any statement from the US government which is being used as part of a propaganda offensive.

But in the case of Iran there is no doubt that the regime has executed literally thousands of political oppositionists since coming to power. There is no doubt about their anti-gay and anti-woman record. There is no doubt about their jailing of trade unionists. No doubt about their denial of basic freedoms, like having a pint or being active in a non-Moslem religion. No doubt about the regime's anti-semitism (like hosting an international conference of Holocaust deniers in December 2006).

There is nothing sudden about the stories coming from Iran, they started very shortly after the Mullahs took power in 1979.

The HOPI group, which has been doing much in Ireland to expose what's happening, enjoys the support of several socialist organisations like the Irish Socialist Network and the Workers Solidarity Movement. The majority of its members are people who have been active in either the Irish Anti-War Movement, Grassroots Network Against War or the Cork Peace Alliance. And HOPI has always made it clear that they oppose any imperialist invasion or sanctions.

Some people see the choice as between supporting the US government or the Iranian government. I would suggest that socialists should be supporting working people in their struggles for freedom and a better life. If that's not our priority, what sort of socialists would we be?

When the Western powers invaded Afghanistan should we have suspended our opposition to the Taliban?

Most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time. Similarly we can oppose a vicious theocratic regime while at the same time opposing any imperialist attacks.

The only reason not to oppose the Tehran dictatorship is if one believes that they are great guys who are doing their best for everyone in Iran. But to believe that after 30 years of their brutal and authoritarian rule would be substituting wishful thinking for reality.