The Tara Skryne Valley on Sunday

by Carmel Diviney Mon May 24, 2010 15:54

I am posting another photo which you sent to me of the Gabhra River from yesterday, as it really shocked me. At that point it is barely a stream -let alone a River. The Gabhra is considered a Sacred River which, it is thought, may have taken the ashes of the ancestors after death from the ritual Henge of Lismullin to join with the Boyne and on out to sea on their Otherworkdly Journey. It has been diverted, polluted and now this.

As to the Badgers and other mamals, I wrote to the NRA last year and again this year to ask how many and where the animal underpasses are situated but recieved no reply to either email, ignored but there is a record of it.

Originally there were supposed to be 14 of these between Blundelstown and Collierstown to provide safe passage to small animals but we have been unable to find all of them. We asked for GPS positions or a map but recieved nothing. Stone walled and not the only time by the NRA.

by Builder. Mon May 24, 2010 17:41

The so called standing stone has a dead flat top.

It has razor sharp 90 degree angled sides.

It is almost certainly square in cross section.

That standing stone is probably of newer than my own house.
.

by Botanist. Mon May 24, 2010 17:56

"The planting on the M3 verges seems in many places to be almost monoculture; the planting of Hazel only and I wonder why they did not put in Whitethorn, Crab Apple, Blackthorn etc; the normal hedge plants of the Irish Countryside?"

If you look in the background of the photo of concrete pillar that you call a standing stone you will see those very plants.

In verdant abundance.
.

by Morrigan Tue May 25, 2010 07:58

Botanist, yes they are there in verdant abundance in the background of that photo and thankfully so. The people who planted them were far wiser than the NRA and took more into consideration than finance and meeting a deadline, planting any old way. Isnt it a pity they didnt plant them over along the M3!

Builder, this is a recognised standing stone recorded in the Record of Monuments. Do you think they didnt have the ability to create angles back then ? Ever heard of , Newgrange, Stonehenge, the Pyramids for example? And they did it all without the machinery you yourself would rely on no doubt.

by Farrelly57 - Private Tue May 25, 2010 08:20

Yes when I seen the stone first I thought it must be modern. Then I had a closer look. There are ogham markings on it, worn away by cattle rubbing themselves against it but they are there is you look closely.
There are three mentions of a standing stone on the Gabhra, it two seperate ancient manuscripts. There may be more.
This is the only stone in existence today.
Two refer to burials under it and one to a marker where the warriors fell.
Yes it made be a copy of an older stone which stood there, but if it is it is at least older than me or you. By the fourth century when these stones made their appearance stonemasonry had reached its zenith. They had all the tools needed including hardened chisels, hammers and planes so they could produce works of stone as good if not better to what we produce today .
If you look at the lentels on old passage tombs you will see too that they had the ability to cut and shear stone to a razor angle. If is is modern, and I conced it may be, ie, a copy, it still must mark where a similar stone used to be; why else go to the bother of putting it up.
The hedges in the background look different to the hedges that have been planted on the M3 road side and I wondered why were they not copied and planted in verdant abundance?

by Farrelly57 - Private Tue May 25, 2010 10:40

On the Stone.

I first seen that stone three years ago, standing then in the middle of a green field between the hills of Skryne and Tara, before the road changed all.
I dismissed it as just been strange. I concede that it is still very strange, huge, solid and well worked. If it is modern it has been worked as an ogham stone has.
Then I read how Wilde in 1860 had discovered horse bits and other remnants and concluded that this field was the scene of an ancient battle, possible the one mentioned in the Fianna saga.
The stone stands near enough to that spot, in the middle of a valley between the two hills. I returned and photo’d it and in the winter light the markings were more apparent. It is from solid granite. Then I found and read these poems.

Oisin, what sad mound is this that holds
the long grave? Tell us, blameless old man,
what grave-mound it is which is thus
greater than the rest.

The grave site of Osgar has been recognized by many
scholars as Rath Lugh, also known in the old literature cycles as
The Fort of the Gabhra or The Fort of the Old Men.
On its roof are the remains of a large C-shaped enclosure,
running its entire length and opening towards the east.
This could be what remains of the sad mound.

Long have I been reckoning them up, son
of Calphrann, cleric, watching their
beautiful graves on the many-fielded plain of
Gabhair.
From the Lays Of Finn. Volume 2.

The Standing Stones of Ireland
(11th/12th Century Poem)
(Starting line 312)
… O stone of Gabhair of fierce horror,
Planted by Caoílte, son of Ronán,
Beneath whom lie two men of fierce courage,
Mac Lughach and Oscar
O stone here on Gabhair in the north
Whom Fionn of the hard blades raised,
Cairbre Liffeachair, who was no weakling
Lies beneath thee, along with his good son
O stone here in the south on the steep hill,
Raised by Oisín of the angry weapons,
The two sons of the king of Lochlainn beyond the sea
- Beneath thee are those two men of might

A learned friend told me that this poem is reckoned to have been written down around the 11th / 12th century, but it is possible a very early composition, as several of the words have been lengthened, altered etc, to suit Middle Irish.

Then a stone is mentioned in the Book of Leinster about the Gabhra battle,
On the Ogham
it is written
where the warriors fell.

The stone I have mentioned is the only stone standing in the Valley today.

I know that a stone Lia Na Bfiann, (the stone of the warriors) stood to the south of the Hill of Tara, just outside the present fence and was recorded on maps in 1860. It may be the last stone mentioned “in the south on the steep hill”. It is missing today.
Another stone stands in the middle of a henge in Collierstown, again squared, and it is documented in the National Monuments Archives as a ring fort. There is a very old photo of it in the file too. I believe that it is the Stone of the Druids mentioned in the Colloquy of the Ancients,
“The stone of the Druids east of Temhair”.
There are many examples of straight cut standing stones, with flat tops and I provide a few examples.
I have no problem with being proved wrong, it is how I learn.

Winter View of the Gabhra Stone

Fenagh Stone

Longford Stone

by Know-it-All. Tue May 25, 2010 17:48

During the 18th Century there was a fashion among the idle rich to put up what they themselves called "follies".

Ireland and England is covered in them.

They were little decorations in the landscapes of their big houses.

Pretend ancient Standing stones were nice to look out on.

A nice ancient touch for their immaculate gardens.

That standing stone has not gone through 3000-4000-5000 years of weathering.

lt looks too new.
.
.

by Tara Tara Tara Tue May 25, 2010 18:05

The Irish Govt have built a Big Folly, its called the M3 and a huge slice of the tolls raised on it will be going straight to Spain. Look at the bigger picture.

by Definite Tue May 25, 2010 18:22

Whatever about all the doubts relating to the phallic-symbol type stones on and around the Hill of Tara, nobody seems to dispute the age (circa 2,000 years) and authenticity of the very elaborately decorated Turoe Stone (located in East Galway).

Lengthy and good-quality research by Fr Tom O'Connor suggests that the history of Tara and Turoe has been mixed up in certain important respects.

This may explain why the similarly shaped -- but much plainer and much less interesting -- stones in the Tara area have taken on importance which they possibly do not really deserve?

Might the Tara stone/s, in reality, be just "shadow/s" (sort of) of the Turoe Stone?

Related Link: http://www.handofhistory.com

by King of Tara. Tue May 25, 2010 18:32

If the ancient Irish did not go to the trouble of building Tara then modern protesters would have nothing to protest about when the modern Irish build a road alongside Tara.
.

by TaraTaraTara Tue May 25, 2010 18:46

Ah but they did didnt they, just like the ancients built many astronomically alligned monuments, ceremonial and burial places all around the world. Then along came the modern Irish and bulldozed this ancient wisdom into oblivion.

The protesters are not the losers here although I sense that is how you see it, the Irish people are, as is the now depleted heritage of the world . What the consequences of this will be are as yet immeasurable.

by Botanist. Tue May 25, 2010 19:06

Notice how the lichens (the white bits) have yet to colonise the whole stone.

That stone was put up recently.

by Botanist. Tue May 25, 2010 20:53

The strip of land on either side of the new motorways could be a godsend for the natural world.

What do the National Roads Authority do?

They plant them with large trees.......mile after mile after mile of roadside trees.

Beautiful Tipperary is invisible from the new motorway.

Not only will tourists not see our scenery.

They will not come back to spend their money.
.

by Helen. Tue May 25, 2010 21:20

The NRA tree planters seem to be hell bent on ruining every view in Ireland.

They threatned me with the law when I snapped a sapling when they were planting trees in front of a delightful view of the Lee Valley.
.

by Farrelly57 - Private Wed May 26, 2010 08:28

Botanist, you seem a funny botanist.
There is no lichen on the bottom half of the stone because animals rub themselves against it and so they rub it off. The locals call them scratching stones because of this. They have told me that the stone was always there. No one remembers a time when it was not.
I have a training in plant science and lichen etc, only grows where there is a build up of some organic material, on smooth surfaces it does not grow. If it did then stone houses, etc would be covered by it.
What sort of botanical training did you get?
Follies were large buildings always in gardens or on hills, I have never heard of anyone building a standing stone, indeed it was the old West Brit landowners who documented and saved what is left of our stones and heritage.
You lot remind me of the peasants of the past, uneducated and unaware of the deeper things of life,
so you meet them with feral hate. You will busy yourselves looking for any excuse to demean or destroy our heritage.
Just wait until in a decade or so climate change really kicks in and we may have to run from the overdeveloped, litter and ruined slum we have built under the name of progress.
Keep the smart arse jibes till then.

by Pat - None Thu May 27, 2010 21:15

I'm all for tree planting considering that Ireland is one of the least wooded countries in Europe. Most other Eruopean countries have at least 40% tree coverage in their countries, Ireland has around 5% coverage. That figure was released a few years ago, at the rate that trees are been torn to pieces by diggers at prersent it probably less dropped than 5%.

The dodgy Botanist seems concerned about money that we might lose from tourist, that fondness of money is the cause of all our problems at present.

The dodgy Botanist say's
'' The strip of land on either side of the new motorways could be a godsend for the natural world ''.

'' What do the National Roads Authority do? ''

'' They plant them with large trees.......mile after mile after mile of roadside trees''.

'' Beautiful Tipperary is invisible from the new motorway ''.

'' Not only will tourists not see our scenery ''.

'' They will not come back to spend their money ''.

I promised myself that I would never use that cursed M3 motor way when it opens. I will however spend time in and around the Tara Valley and like the idea of large trees being planted along the motor way. This way I wont have to look at the cursed motor way, and I care little about the tourist who moan about the view form their bus as it travels along the M3 sending pollution all around.
Botanist, the best way to see Ireland is by walking and climbing hills. The problem with Ireland is we put too much priority into cars and buses, let them walk.

by Carmel Diviney - Tara Skryne Preservation Group Fri May 28, 2010 13:20

As reported above, I asked the NRA for the locations, gps points of where the underpasses are for a conservation survey being prepared by the Tara Skryne Preservation Group and this is the vague reply I got today. We still dont know where all of them are. In the spirit of co operation they could have sent a map.

Dear Ms. Diviney,

I refer to your query below and we can confirm that Dr. Vincent O’Malley, Environmental Manager, NRA has inspected the mammal underpasses on the M3 and is satisfied that they fulfill all requirements of the NRA.

Regards

Sheila Flanagan

Public Private Partnership Unit

by Botanist Fri May 28, 2010 13:41

The egeways of motorways are a botanical delight

No farmers ploughing up the natural world.

by Botanist Fri May 28, 2010 14:26

The NRA put tall pine trees on either side of their welcome new motorways.
This is not an exaggeration:
Soon you will drive from Dublin to Cork or from Dublin to Galway in a corridor of pines.
You will not be able to see Tipperaty in a trip from Dublin to Cork.

by TaraTaraTara Fri May 28, 2010 19:20

Botanist, it is a pity the NRA dont have a chat forum so that you could post your comments of appreciation there. They have lots ignorant members from Spokespeople on up or down so you would fit right in.

by Botanist. Sat May 29, 2010 16:50

I just mentioned that the NRA are hell bent on making the journey from Dublin to Cork or from Dublin to Galway a tunnel through a corridor of tall trees.

The tall trees are just feet away.

No views allowed.

Oscar Wilde said:

"That patch of blue that prisoners call the sky".