Munich

by Topper Wed Jan 25, 2006 21:02

What your argument leaves out is what happened before Munich, which undermines any attempt to pose the clash between Israel and the PLO as a contest between good and evil. I could come out with a long list of Israeli crimes from 1948 onwards, but I'll just mention one: shortly before Munich, the Israeli air force bombed Palestinian refugee camps and killed countless civilians.

One of the men who planned Munich was interviewed in the Irish Times last week; he said this attack (which was totally ignored by western governments and the world media) helped convince them that Black September had to do something spectacular in order to force the oppression of Palestinians onto the agenda.

Moreover, the Israeli state committed far worse crimes in its war against the PLO than appear on the screen in "Munich". Most notably, it carefully supervised a massacre of 3,000 unarmed Palestinian civilians by its Lebanese allies.

by moviegoer Wed Jan 25, 2006 21:29

Check out "Art as Humanization"- a review of Munich from David Walsh on the World Socialist Web Site.

Quote:

"One is entitled to have ambivalent feelings about this film, but, in the end, it strikes me as an honest, relatively complicated and humane effort—in many ways, quite remarkable—and one that provides little comfort for defenders of the status quo, in Israel or elsewhere."

by Seán Ryan Wed Jan 25, 2006 22:16

Spielberg films are bubblegum for the mind. They are basically a vehicle of propaganda. Check out, "The Middle Mind" by Curtis White. He deals with Spielberg very well, focusing specifically on "Saving Private Ryan."

Among the many gems he produces, he reckons that the start of the film (saving pvt ryan), showing two blonde haired, blue eyed buxom beauties, and suggesting that the likes of them (the two beauties) were the reason for WW2. White points out, that from this ambiguos beginning, it is hard to tell whether what was achieved in WW2 was a nazi goal or an American one, or that there is much of a difference between the two.

My own opinion on Spielberg is that he is to art what shite is to a white shirt.

Aint seen Spielbergs latest turd, won't be seeing it.

Sláinte,
Seán

by Tracker Thu Jan 26, 2006 04:05

Copied from http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/dennisprager/2006/01/10/181666.html

by Mr. Spielberg's PA Thu Jan 26, 2006 09:55

"Aint seen Spielbergs latest turd, won't be seeing it."

Sean, I have passed on your critique to Mr Spielberg.
Naturally he is very disappointed and rather upset at your reaction to his film making.
However, he assures me he will endeavour to make a movie just for you next time.
Hope that helps.

by gay geori Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:48 gg at bearla dot ie

I thought it was well-made and raised some key issues about terrorism and the pursuit of justice.

Worried about the events after? You might as well wonder where the money for Palestinian Reconstruction and Development, I mean the Suha Arafat Cosmetic Surgery and Paris Apartment Rental Fund), went... I guess some Chumpskian moral equivalence would be a good thesis for someone to write there.


I read the interview in the Irish Times (Lara Marlowe-Fisk sitting in Syria with him surprise, surprise) with the smug, arrogant, mafia-type ghoul who organised this massacre - on a whim because the Palestinians weren't allowed send a delegation to compete in the games. A disgusting individual, and a disgusting event, the images of Munich remains second to the images of cheering Palestinians delighed when the planes hit the towers in New York, setting back their cause years. Hopefully, justice will still be done.

I'm sure the Mary "Letter Writer" Kelly's and the Rachel Corrie Altar Decorators of this world will be outside cinemas with their placards, but who cares what such deluded and misled fools think?

by pat c Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:54

"arrogant, mafia-type ghoul who organised this massacre "

Not a ghoul at all, a revolutionary leader who himself participated (at age 45) in the attack. At age 55 an assassin pumped 7 bullets into him and he still managed to pursue the mercenary. Definitely a Palestinian Joe Cahill.

Funny, if you kill 11 reserve members of the Israeli Defence Forces you are a terrorist. If you, as a pilot in the Isaraeli Aur Force drop bombs on women and children in a refugee camp you are a hero.

Dont forget, the Israeli assassins who went after the PLO, killed innocent people by "mistake".

by Noel Thu Jan 26, 2006 13:55

"Funny, if you kill 11 reserve members of the Israeli Defence Forces you are a terrorist"

These 11 reservists you refer to, were they the 11 Olympic athletes by any chance?

by pat c Thu Jan 26, 2006 13:58

yes, they were IDF reservists as well as athletes.

the women and children in the refugee camps killed by israeli bombs were not PLO rervists.

Kill 11 and you are a terrorist. Kill 11,000 and you are an israeli statesman like Sharon.

by rob Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:09

really slimy comparison there pat, as you know all jewish isrealis are required to do national service so you are really saying that all adult israeli jews are legitiimate targets.

disgraceful.

by pat c Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:16

ah rob, c'mon. people make nasty comments, i make nasty comments back. i dont think the munich massacre was a good thing, i wish it hadn't happened. i'm just trying to put things in perspective.

i oppose anti-semitism and you should note some of my recent criticisms (on indy) of islam. in israel women and gays have rights and can march for more. if gays or women choose to march in tel aviv they will have the protection of the police. i wouldnt like to try and organise a gay march in gaza.

i defend the right of israel to exist peacefully within its pre 1967 borders. what i wont do is condemn people as terrorists when their actions are no worse than those of the IDF.

by Topper Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:18

"Hopefully, justice will still be done."

I presume that means you want him dead? While we're at it, and in the interest of fairness and balance, I hope you'll be good enough to wish that Hamas or Fatah can penetrate the security around Ariel Sharon's hospital bed and shoot him to death, so that "justice will still be done" for his Palestinian and Lebanese victims.

"Chumpskian"? I see you were reading Kevin Myers. Bless...

by Arthur Kennedy Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:02

"i defend the right of israel to exist peacefully within its pre 1967 borders. what i wont do is condemn people as terrorists when their actions are no worse than those of the IDF."

The "1967" borders aren't borders at all. It's an armistace line, where the invading Arab armies were stopped.
More legitimately they should be called the "1948 borders" because that is when the Arab armies invaded and stole "palestinian" territory.
Five attempts to anihilate israel, and the arab armies lost more territory with each attempted genocide.
Now, they want a "do-over"...sore losers is what they are.
The election of Hamas is the literal end of any national aspirations of the "palestinian" people.

by Topper Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:09

Thanks for exposing your racist attitude, AK. Since you refuse to acknowledge that there is such a thing as the Palestinian people, it's no wonder you can regurgitate the fairytale version of Middle East history with a straight face. Obviously no point trying to reason with a fanatic like you, but you should know that the positive view of Israel that was once almost universal in the west has been shredded everywhere outside the US, thanks to the brutal, racist policies of the Israeli state in the occupied territories. Only cranks like you repeat the tired old myths. The Palestinians will get justice, and sooner than you think.

by Noel Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:13

So Topper, when was the term Palestinian first used?

by pat c Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:17

What % of the population of the present state of Israel was Jewish in 1917 (time of the Balfour Declaration?

by Weso Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:19

They've made their bed, they can lie on it. Never met should a shower of miserable wa*kers in my life ( and Aer Lingus have to share a terminal with them (El Al or something in hebrew, in JFK - What a bad start to a holiday!!)

by Topper Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:21

No luck Noel, I know all about your hateful racist fanaticism from your previous posts on this site, you celebrate Generals Sharon and Eitan as "heroes" for supervising the massacre of 3,000 civilians. You will get no argument from me, I don't intend to waste my time arguing with a racist bigot like you.

But I repeat the point - thirty or forty years ago, there was a very positive view of Israel in the west. Now that has gone, and only fanatics like you repeat the lies. The "land without a people" fairytale has been totally annihilated by serious scholarship (most of it Israeli). The only way for Israel to recover its positive image is to end the brutal oppression of the Palestinians. This is also the only way it can guarantee its own peace and security.

by Noel Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:26

"The Palestinian people does not exist."

Which racist bigot said this in 1977?

by Barry Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:26

interesting article here

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1138283264&user=32csm

probably a bit more interesting than the usual zionist shite promoted by the same zionist nutters that this thread will drag on with like a 1000 before it

by Weso Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:34

Three cheers for the noble and brave warriors of the freedom fighter turned ruling party Hamas. Its a good day...

by pat c Thu Jan 26, 2006 18:16

its a bad day for women & gays & anyone who isnt prepared to crawl on their belly before allah. if hamas try and enforce islamic law then i hope there is a fight back from fatah. the first religious police that appear should be cut down like bullet riddled partridges (to borrow a phrase from trotsky).

Down with Zionism!

Down with Islamic Fundamentalism!